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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:09 pm 
Meet my 1978 2-stroke 49cc Honda Express named Greenie. I've had her for, oh, about 30 years. Have ridden her on and off over the years (trading off with my Sprees) and done a LOT of carb cleaning to fix a variety of issues that have come up, but never really done much else to her. Six-volt battery. No starter, but instead she has what appears to be a kick start lever. One pumps it several times before starting, this winds a spring that is released by pulling the brake lever, turns the engine over, and start.

Image

When I was last riding her (2008, right before I bought my first Ruckus), the wind-up starter quit winding. There are no instructions anywhere about how to fix the spring mechanism, only warnings about how dangerous it is, and insistence that one change out the entire left cover if anything goes wrong. I was a frequent visitor at MopedArmy.com and purchased a used one from another member. However... I could NOT get the 15 screws loose to remove it. I managed to get 2 of them loose, but the remainder would not loosen even with an impact wrench (the old fashioned kind that one hits with a hammer :wasted: )

Somewhere around that time, my Sprees both crapped out on me and I went and bought Rudy! Greenie has been in the garage ever since, waiting for me to have time to fight with those bolts. I sold both Sprees, but did not want to give up good ol' Greenie.

THIS SUMMER it's time! I hauled her out of the garage and today started taking parts off to have more room to work.

Image

Went to work, CLP'ed the heck out of the screws, pulled out my old impact wrench again. Nothin doing. Went looking for the 3 lb sledge, but ran across the dead blow hammer... and it WORKED! I got 10 of the 15 screws loose and went to work drilling the heads off the rest. And finally...

Image

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Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
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Last edited by P-Dub on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Shot Caller
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:28 pm 
There's a whole lot going on under that cover.... :shock:

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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:29 pm 
Some observations along the way:
    *Wow, a lot of chassis bolts were not fully tight -- will have to stay on top of that
    *I guess the oil system needs help -- when I removed the exhaust, the header pipe was FULL of oil -- I had to carry it away and dump it out. Will have to determine if something needs replacing. (no wonder the thang smoked so badly if I had not ridden her in a few days!)
    *Why does Honda use non-stainless steel screws in aluminum parts? You think taking those 4 Ruckus handlebar control screws out is hard -- try taking out 15 that have been in an aluminum swingarm for nearly 40 years!
    *Maybe I'll look into rebuilding the engine... under 4000 miles on her, but geeze it's a mess with oil leaking all over.

    *Maybe... ... ... ... I'll look into getting a 60cc kit... :mrgreen:

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2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


Last edited by P-Dub on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:32 pm 
Check out what's going on inside the left cover!

Image

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2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


Last edited by P-Dub on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Shot Caller
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:41 pm 
It could just need valve seals and new gaskets.

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you should grease the seat and grips



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Ride Game Participant
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:02 pm 
Holy shit that thing is FUCKING BADASS! LOVE the stock color!

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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:03 pm 
Yesterday I pulled off the oil pump, took it apart and cleaned it. There's an o-ring seal that I can replace which might be why it was draining into the exhaust header.

Image

I also opened the carb and cleaned it. This is very familiar, as when I used to ride it, I had to take it apart over and over. These are notoriously easy to get clogged up. However, I had forgotten that the inside has, well, some issues...

Image

Eaten away! Like some little critter got in there and started chewing on the aluminum! Yowzers.

But another problem -- see that brass thing that is (out of focus) closest to you?

Image

That's the main jet. It's not round anymore... I have NO idea what in heck happened to this poor thing! It seems clear that I will need to locate a new carb -- whether finding a used one from someone that is still in good shape, or the awful process of trying to piece together what aftermarket carb might fit, what else I will need to do to make it work, bla bla bla...

I've been reading MopedArmy.com to see if there are any simple solutions. Ha. Simple?? But still more to read.

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2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


Last edited by P-Dub on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:38 pm 
Yesterday I also took out some of the parts inside Greenie's cover, and tried to figure out why the kick pedal does not wind the spring. No clue. Still trying to figure out how this all works, exactly.

So today I decided to take apart the donor cover and see if I could make that one work, in an attempt to understand the function so I can diagnose the problem with Greenie. It was very dirty, so I took out most everything and did some major brain damage with the carb cleaner...

Image

The only remaining stuff in the cover is the starter spring, with its protective panel held on with security bolts, and a warning: Do Not Remove! Danger! in both English and Japanese.

All of the stuff in the cover is only for starting the engine! Why did they design it this way?? What a mystery...

_________________
2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


Last edited by P-Dub on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:01 pm 
T?@\7 wrote:
Holy shit that thing is FUCKING BADASS! LOVE the stock color!

Thanks, Ray!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's something I found today. Perhaps this is related to why the starter won't work properly...

Greenie's on the left, donor on the right...

Image

I can't quite figure out how to install that spring, however. Does it need to be under tension? The service manual is mum...

Work continues...

_________________
2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


Last edited by P-Dub on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Photo of the Week
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:43 am 
Greenie is awesome! I was waiting for you to start this build thread before deciding on keeping my express or not. :wc_flag: Im out :wc_flag: way over my head. But they look so cool. :cry: good luck with yours, :popcorn:

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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:44 pm 
Awww... sorry to hear it. It would be nice to have someone else to commiserate with :lol:

I hope you find it a good home!

_________________
2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:31 pm 
Puzzling for a couple days... conferred with my work-on-mopeds pal... she suggested that I put the carb back on instead of replace it (since it worked when i last rode it), and helped me try to figure out how to re-install the parts inside the cover. We concluded that though the service manual is not particularly forthcoming, I ought to follow the instructions, replace the cover, and just try the starter spring.

So, now I need some kerosene to clean out the gas tank, need some synthetic 2-stroke oil (and yeah a bunch of miscellaneous screws, o-rings, seals, etc.), and I guess I'll do that!

Also found a suggestion that a Honda Hobbit carb (PA50) might work on the Express as well. There sure are a lot more of those available, so if I need to, I may look into that.

Searched for "kerosene" and my city's name and got a list of several gas stations that supposedly have it, but none did... :(
May have to resort to buying it in a can from a hardware store, but will check first at rental places -- they may have kerosene in bulk, as I imagine they rent out kerosene heaters.

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2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
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1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Honda Express repair and service manuals
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:28 am 
Sources for Honda Express info (at least one of these sites has links to service manuals)

Quote:
mopedarmy.com has lots of info on the Express, though it's a somewhat difficult site to find stuff on.
This is one post that has info, but there are other ones with more detailed info, just harder to find.
http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Honda_Express_Repair
Digging through the forums can turn up a lot of information too. In the past, I copied/pasted lots of stuff into a document that I have saved on my computer. I can post that if you are interested.
The Express is "allowed" on mopedarmy, even though it doesn't have pedals: they refer to it as a "noped."

When TR was down, I also found these sites:
http://www.hondaexpressmoped.com/
http://expresslymopeds.50megs.com/

Probably the first thing to do (if you don't know already) is figure out which Express you have. There's the Express NC50, the Express II NA50, and the Urban Express NU50. [EDIT: there's also an NX50...] And, of course, differences in some models depending on what year you have... Here's a run-down:
http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Honda_Express_NC50

Here's a link to the NA/NC50 service manual (the NU50 manual is also available):
http://mopedriders.org/man_hexpresssm.php

6 Volts FTW! (1977-80 models)

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2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


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Dirty Sanchez
Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:05 pm 
Ordered some oil seals, gaskets, etc etc yesterday, and today my work-on-2-strokes pal came over again and I decided to pull the head!
BEFORE:

Image

AFTER (cleaning):

Image

It appears there is some scoring in the cylinder

Image

so I guess I need to have the cylinder honed.
Strangely, there is also scoring on the sides of the piston -- ?? I don't know how that might have happened... ??

Image

SOOOOOO..... now I have to decide if I'm going to find someone who can hone it & get new rings...
OR....
if I'm going to look into getting a 60 or 70 cc kit for her!!
wheeeee!

_________________
2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


Last edited by P-Dub on Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dirty Sanchez
Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: P-Dub's Honda Express "Greenie"
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:31 am 
OEM rings do not seem to be available for Greenie, so I may have to try out some aftermarket rings if I don't get a kit.

Anyone looking for aftermarket parts for mopeds check out treatland.tv
They have a lot of stuff for old Hondas, Puch, Motobecane, Tomos, Minarelli, Vespa, Derbi, Garelli, Peugeot, etc. etc.
(plus the website is kind of fun)

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2014 LucyBird Black 'n' Red Ruckus
Rudy Rotini GET a Daily Ride 2009 Red Ruckus
1978 Greenie:Honda Express
2016 48 Hours of Ruckus Winner


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