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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:17 am 
Was looking everything over last night and found my diaphragm hose wasn’t sitting in the intake runner all that well. The air fitting I have must have busted loose. Probably happened when the upper shock mount bolt snapped.
This could explain why I have been feeling like the power has been down the last little while.
Mixed up some JB Weld and fixed her up.

Image

should be good for another 10hp...... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:12 pm 
always great info in this thread !

nice Ruckus :canuck:

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:50 pm 
Thanks man :highfive:
I took a look at your thread. Can't believe I missed it. You got some cool stuff going on over there.
You NB guys got a good size crew going.

thanks for stopping by :banger:

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:20 am 
Well back from holidays. Nothing to really update.
Was pretty happy with how the bike ran. the jetting I had worked out fine.

Didn't get any great photo's. We mostly just ripped to the beer store and back on the bikes.

Image

Image

Image

Had to ride up this monstrous hill every time we headed back to the house. What a PITA that was. My Mom's stock ruck along with the wife's and sisters bike destroyed me and my brother up it. I was down to 28kph at times getting passed by traffic. That sucked!
Excited to pick up some clutch parts this Friday and hopefully fix that issue. Unfortunately everywhere I tried to buy the NCY clutch bell, they were on back order. At least I was able to get the Zuma springs and a Polini contra to play with. :highfive:

With any luck I'll find some time to tune these parts....

More to come,

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:49 pm 
:banger: :popcorn:

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:34 am 
Successful boarder run on Friday. Picked up mostly performance stuff for the truck but also had the clutch springs for me and my brother on this order. Looking forward to getting those in next week maybe... Camping and dirt biking seems to take up all my ruckus time. :banger:


Clutch disassembly thread for reference later.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=105772

Seriously thinking about cutting the "hook" off this time.

Will get picks soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:55 am 
Ok finally an update worth recording.

Got some time this past weekend to swap out the stock clutch springs. Really easy install.
As mentioned before I installed a Blue Polini Contra Spring and 2 Pink Zuma launch springs. The entire thing start to finish took me 30min.
Image
Image

The blue Polini spring was a bit of a tight fit on the plastic cup but it did fit and I did not have to shave anything down to get it to work. The Zuma springs went in with no issue. Each spring noticeable stronger than the Ruckus ones.

Was also able to get some tuning results on the new springs versus the stock setup.

All testing was done with the following;
Jets- 80/38
Air Screw- 2 turns out
Belt- Gates
Varaitor- Polini (stock DF)
Weights- Mix 4 & 4.5g sliders
Engine Temp- 190-200*F
Outside Temp- Estimated in high teens at time of test. Moderate wind-this for sure held me back on top speed runs. Recorded high that day was 22*C. It did not feel that warm.
Tires- Front 42psi, Rear 43psi

Stock Clutch Spring Test
*No GPS used as number were in line with last test. Speedo tends to be 1-2kph off the IPhone GPS app anyway.

Top Speed- Test Loop- Stock
Note- there is a 2 part hill after my test loop that a do not include in the top speed testing. For the purpose of testing the clutch springs I noted the hill climb RPM only up the first half. The hill has a small climb then a flat section for an uncontrolled intersection then another climb section.
1- Speedo- 67.5kph (41.9 mph)
RPM- 8850
Hill RPM- Not over 8000rpm. Floated between 7500-7900rpm
2- Speedo- 67kph (41.6mph)
RPM- 8990
Hill RPM- Not over 8200rpm. Did hit the corner faster than first try.

Hill Climb- Complete Hill After Test Loop- Stock
*All climbs were started from a complete stop
1- Speed/RPM half way- 54kph (33.55mph) at 8400rpm
Speed/RPM at top- 54kph at 8450rpm
2- Speed/RPM half way- 54kph (33.55mph) at 8500rpm
Speed/RPM at top- 57kph (35.41mph) at 8700rpm
*Very small draft changing lanes. Tach spiked to 9300rpm once.
3- Speed/RPM half way- 55kph (34.17mph) at 8600rpm
Speed/RPM at top- 60kph at 8860rpm

Launch- Stock
*Test done in driveway from complete stop. RPMs recorded as bike started to move.
1- 4200-5500rpm
2- 4600-5300rpm
3- 4100-5200rpm

About a 45min time lapse between Stock testing and Upgraded Clutch Spring tests.
Note- After all the reading about the Polini Contra Spring all other reviews say it needs a break in period. Most say this is a few hundred miles. It seems most people recommend putting much heavier weights in to help break in the spring. During break in top speed is typically down.

Top Speed- Test Loop- Polini/Zuma Springs
1- Speedo- 63.7kph (39.58mph)
RPM- 10,150
Hill RPM- 9300-9700
*Bike pulls hard and revs to the moon!! Drop in top speed could be Polini spring needing to be broke in.
2- Test run not done as RPM’s were too high. Personally I don’t like running the motor over 10,000rpm

Hill Climb- Complete Hill After Test Loop- Polini/Zuma Springs
*All climbs were started from a complete stop
1- Speed/RPM half way- 53.6kph (33.3mph) at 9600rpm
Speed/RPM at top- 56kph (34.79mph) at 9600rpm
2- Speed/RPM half way- 52kph (32mph) at 9500rpm
Speed/RPM at top- 56.3kph (34.98mph) at 96500rpm
3- Speed/RPM half way- 53kph (32.93mph) at 9600rpm
Speed/RPM at top- 55kph (34.17mph) at 9800-10,000rpm (tach Jumping)
*Almost a 1000rpm increase while climbing.

Launch- Polini/Zuma Springs
*Test done in driveway from complete stop. RPMs recorded as bike started to move.
1- 4400-5800rpm
2- 4500-5600rpm
3- 4900-5800rpm
*the numbers don’t reflect how high the bike launches now. When I did launches and continued to roll (not recorded) you can see that the bike was a lot higher in the RPM range.

To double check my jetting was correct I pulled the plug after a cruise and a top speed run. Nice light brown.
Image

Notes-
As far as the top speed goes, I’m not surprised it has dropped a bit as all the reviews have said it would. Now I need to break in the Polini spring and adjust the weights for the higher RPM. (Yes the wind could have been a factor that day) Will need to put at least 200-300 km on with heavier weights to see if there is a difference after. The revs are insane!! The bike gets into the power so much quicker and with very little effort. (Exhaust is loud as shit now) My cruising RPM has improved drastically. Quick on/off’s with the throttle is no problem in traffic. The RPM increase on hills has limited the kph drop I typically see on larger hills. Smaller hills I accelerate up now.

All things considered I am very happy with these mods. Like always I wish I didn’t wait so long to do this one. The added rpm should make tuning a bit easier. I’m sure a lighter clutch bell would help marginally, but that will have to wait until next year.
My thought is that once the Polini Spring is broke in I should be able to adjust my weights in such a way that I’ll be able to ride between 8300-9300rpm. Just need to check those James Dean dyno sheets and confirm where the power is and stay in that area.

Loving this thing again,
Image

Now to put some km on…. More to come.

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:54 am 
:highfive:

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:15 am 
oldfart55 wrote:
:highfive:


Appreciate all the help through this. :banger:


So, thinking out loud here. Feel free to comment. I'm interested to hear someone else's opinion on this stuff? Went back and read through the James Dean Dyno thread again. Probably the best tuning thread on here :highfive:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=93881

The only thing I'm really interested in now is tuning the varaitor in such a way that the bikes RPM stays as close to the power band as possible. The new Contra spring has now given me access to RPM's I had trouble achieving before.
When looking at the below chart James compared different intake setups and has seen that regardless of setup the bikes power is between 8500-9500rpm.
**Although my setup (intake/exhaust) is not completely the same nor am I at the same elevation my results might be slightly different. either way i believe the idea remains the same and my motor would make peek power in the same place.

Image

I likely wont have enough time with whats left of this season to try and get my weights dialed. Probably will barely get that Polini Contra spring broke in before the snow starts in mid-late October.
Either way I'll keep this in the back of my mind. I'm thinking that I'll start next season with a 5.5g slider and work my way down as needed to get the RPM's in the right spot.

Excited to have the tuning bug again.....

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:12 am 
good for you!
I think you put a lot of leg work into this to share your experience. thanks for sharing.
feel free to ask me to delete this but I thought I'd share.
I added a white daytona spring into my clutch and had mixed results. I thought there was a minor drop in top end but the bike did seem more peppy. I had a polini, 5.5g sliders, Daytona kevlar belt, aftermarket exhaust, rejected. and played with different intakes for forever. it seemed like I could rarely hit a top speed I was proud of. Then I decided to turn the bike into a rev monster. I dropped the weights to a 4.5g slider and kept the clutch with white spring in. I knew it would rev like crazy which it did but after the bike settles down the rpms slowly dropped and the belt would climb adding a huge top end. I think it needs to hit 9700rpms to hit 50. after that it will keep going and I am sure I can hit the speed more often while being more peppy all around. I think on a straight run that once I hit about 9600rpms my weights have maxed out the belt position so as the revs climb it's straight speed. on acceleration it will run anywhere from 8800-9800rpms and stay that high. with an aftermarket spring and light weights you need those rpms to get the speed of the variator to throw the belt high enough for it to make good speeds.
just thought I'd share. but to sum it up I went even lower on weights and relied upon revs and belt position.

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:34 am 
Jedi wrote:
good for you!
I think you put a lot of leg work into this to share your experience. thanks for sharing.
feel free to ask me to delete this but I thought I'd share.
I added a white daytona spring into my clutch and had mixed results. I thought there was a minor drop in top end but the bike did seem more peppy. I had a polini, 5.5g sliders, Daytona kevlar belt, aftermarket exhaust, rejected. and played with different intakes for forever. it seemed like I could rarely hit a top speed I was proud of. Then I decided to turn the bike into a rev monster. I dropped the weights to a 4.5g slider and kept the clutch with white spring in. I knew it would rev like crazy which it did but after the bike settles down the rpms slowly dropped and the belt would climb adding a huge top end. I think it needs to hit 9700rpms to hit 50. after that it will keep going and I am sure I can hit the speed more often while being more peppy all around. I think on a straight run that once I hit about 9600rpms my weights have maxed out the belt position so as the revs climb it's straight speed. on acceleration it will run anywhere from 8800-9800rpms and stay that high. with an aftermarket spring and light weights you need those rpms to get the speed of the variator to throw the belt high enough for it to make good speeds.
just thought I'd share. but to sum it up I went even lower on weights and relied upon revs and belt position.



Hey Thanks for posting. Happy to have some extra input in here.
Curious if you had to “break in” your Daytona spring? If so how many miles did it take and did you see some of your top end come back after?

Appreciate the tip on using lower sliders in hopes of keeping the revs higher. My goal has always been to hit 70kph (43mph) consistently. To GET into the high 70’s (46-48mph) would be fantastic!!
Over what distance are you seeing 50mph at 9700rpm? My test road is about 1.1 km (0.68 miles). I’ve always struggled to hit 70 and have often wondered if I’m not giving myself enough road?


Through some 4.5 sliders in over the weekend and rode it a bit. No testing info to see how it’s doing. Does feel a lot more responsive.

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:32 am 
Makes me think maybe I should try some lighter sliders, I've rarely ever tried anything under 5 grams. I think I have a set of 4.5s I made years ago when I was still running a KN. Worth a shot :meh:

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:10 pm 
oldfart55 wrote:
Makes me think maybe I should try some lighter sliders, I've rarely ever tried anything under 5 grams. I think I have a set of 4.5s I made years ago when I was still running a KN. Worth a shot :meh:


Worth a try for sure.

I read the update in your build thread.
You say your hitting 47-48mph no problem on the flats, what RPM are you at when this happens?

Trying to GET an idea of where others are seeing these top speeds? Hopefully I can tune mine to GET number like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:58 am 
Andy643 wrote:
oldfart55 wrote:
Makes me think maybe I should try some lighter sliders, I've rarely ever tried anything under 5 grams. I think I have a set of 4.5s I made years ago when I was still running a KN. Worth a shot :meh:


Worth a try for sure.

I read the update in your build thread.
You say your hitting 47-48mph no problem on the flats, what RPM are you at when this happens?

Trying to GET an idea of where others are seeing these top speeds? Hopefully I can tune mine to GET number like that.

Andy, The most reliable numbers I have are with 5.5s. Had a nice calm day and checked several times. Was seeing 42mph@8200rpm, 45@8500, 48@8800, and 52 (downhill) @ about 9300. Switched to 5.25 and got about a 250 rpm increase across the board. I've got all 5s in it right now, but haven't had a chance to really try it out. I expect another 250 rpm increase or so. Last time I rode was one of those frustrating days when every time I got a good run going, some A-hole would pull out in front of me. :pissed:

I think the 5s are going to be about right. If I still have rpm to spare, I'll try the 4.5s and see if I can get into Jedi-Land! I'm not really comfortable running above 9600-9700 rpm, at 10,000 my motor starts sounding scary.

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 Post subject: Re: Andy's Project Ruck- tuning results
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:35 pm 
oldfart55 wrote:
Andy, The most reliable numbers I have are with 5.5s. Had a nice calm day and checked several times. Was seeing 42mph@8200rpm, 45@8500, 48@8800, and 52 (downhill) @ about 9300.


OF, those are pretty good numbers. :banger: I'd be VERY happy to consistently GET those numbers. Not sure I'd be able to push a set of 5.5 sliders to that RPM. Granted I've yet to tune with anything over 5.0g. With the new clutch mods I'm seeing higher RPM and would hope maybe I can now.

A question that I often ask myself is how much of a difference does a fatty wheel (12x7), tire and hub affect the gearing? Could the difference between me and you be the rear wheel setup? (we are about the same weight)

My best top speed from the other day before my clutch mods was 67kph (41.6mph) @ 8990rpm this is almost 10kph (6.4mph) slower than you at comparable rpm.

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