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 Post subject: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:34 pm 
First off I am new at this scooter stuff . When I replaced the weights in My BR the inside of the variator was nice and clean .

I have some Elite 250 scooters that I like to putts with . Any way I just picked up another one with about 7000 miles on it . I really didn't buy it for the scooter , I bought it for the plastics that were in such good shape .

Any way there is a metal rubbing noise coming out of the clutch / variator area . Got any ideas on that one ?

I have some parts left over from my last 250 elite project , so today I got the clutch and variator out of the parts hoard to clean them just in case . When I took the variator apart it was loaded with some nasty black grease . Any way I used a half a roll of paper towels and some paint thinner to clean it all up . (what a mess :pissed: ) Then after I got done I pulled the service manual out and it stated that you have to pack the variator with grease .

(Just to clarify here , the entire area where the weights sit was loaded with grease . )

This is what the service manual says .

Lubricate the inside of the drive face with grease . Use 25 to 30 grams of grease . Specifically Lithium based grease .

WTF !! Is that about ? Is this some thing that they used to do before they knew better ? Or am I missing some thing ?

Thanks in advance for any info .............TheReaper!

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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:38 pm 
I don't know this for sure, but I THINK it has to do with the roller coating material.....
modern variator rollers are teflon or other composite coated.

Older ones were not and wore flat fast.


If you're all stock, I'd follow the manual instructions.....
but using aftermarket rollers might be an option.

You might get a better response from the Elite section.....
they would definitely know more about that model.

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:09 pm 
BRed wrote:
I don't know this for sure, but I THINK it has to do with the roller coating material.....
modern variator rollers are teflon or other composite coated.

Older ones were not and wore flat fast.


If you're all stock, I'd follow the manual instructions.....
but using aftermarket rollers might be an option.

You might get a better response from the Elite section.....
they would definitely know more about that model.



Thanks Ed , I took your advise and posted it in the Elite section . Most of the people in the Elite section have smaller cc Elites , so I posted it here in the BR section because it's 250cc . I figured there were probably more Elite 250 owners on this side .

I've been able to pick up two Elite 250's in the past month , and some time over the week end I'm supposed to look at another one . Some times you go a year without finding one worth buying , but for what ever reason I've found 2 , and have another on the way in just one month . When it rains it pours ?

TheReaper!

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:34 pm 
Also check with any Helix owners.......
early model Elite 250s had the same engine as the Helix.......
later model Elite 250s have the same engine as the Reflex/BR/Jazz.

unless I'm mistaken, though, they came with 23 gram rollers, so were much sportier stock off the line than the BR or Reflex.

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:43 pm 
BRed wrote:
Also check with any Helix owners.......
early model Elite 250s had the same engine as the Helix.......
later model Elite 250s have the same engine as the Reflex/BR/Jazz.

unless I'm mistaken, though, they came with 23 gram rollers, so were much sportier stock of the line than the BR or Reflex.



The other day my son and I went for a little ride , I was on my BR and he was on one of the Elites we just bought . I wanted to see which was faster so we raced from a 5 MPH roll . Him and the Elite ran away from me and the BR . And I mean RAN ! He immediately jumped out 3 scooter lengths and continued gaining .

That's probably why I am so attracted to the 250 Elites . The little suckers are scary fast .

TheReaper!

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:11 pm 
so is your BR if you lighten the rollers and retune it a bit.....
I dropped 3x18s and 3x17s into totally stock BR#2 then tightened the valves a bit and retuned the pilot and it almost cut its 0-60mph time in half.......from 25 seconds to 14 seconds. And it still gets about 66mpg.


I think other than modding the slide's venturi and grinding out the slag in the exhaust header, I will leave it completely stock...air box, filter, jetting and exhaust.

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:50 pm 
From my helix manual...
Lubricate the inside of the moveable drive face with grease,then install the weight rollers.
Note
Use 25-30 g of grease and apply to the inside of the moveable drive face evenly.
Specified grease:Lithium based grease
-Mitsubishi:Hd_3
-Nippon Sekiyu:Lipanox Delux 3
-Idemitsu: Autolex B
-Bel-Ray: Moly Lube 124
-Sta-Lube:MP 3141
Apply grease to o-ring and install it


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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:39 am 
Well Grease......

ooops! I'm in the WRONG Section!
Don't own a BR.

-Honest Mistake

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:26 am 
My son had an elite 150 2 years ago,..when we bought it, the variator and weights were in sad sad shape,....i cleaned it totally, replaced with new honda weights, and ran it clean & dry,...a variator is a variator,....i don't see how it makes any difference at all if its off an elite, reflex, helix, BR, etc, etc,...just my .02 worth..... :dubious:

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:41 am 
BRed wrote:
Also check with any Helix owners.......
early model Elite 250s had the same engine as the Helix.......
later model Elite 250s have the same engine as the Reflex/BR/Jazz.

unless I'm mistaken, though, they came with 23 gram rollers, so were much sportier stock off the line than the BR or Reflex.



I looked it up and the 250 Elite and the Helix came stock with 24X18 22.6 gram rollers . (and lots of grease) I wonder how much difference it would make if I did put lighter weights in it . Or how much more top end is available with heavier weights ?

TheReaper!

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:25 am 
it WILL make a difference! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:14 pm 
Sawman wrote:
My son had an elite 150 2 years ago,..when we bought it, the variator and weights were in sad sad shape,....i cleaned it totally, replaced with new honda weights, and ran it clean & dry,...a variator is a variator,....i don't see how it makes any difference at all if its off an elite, reflex, helix, BR, etc, etc,...just my .02 worth..... :dubious:


Sorry about that I forgot to say THANKS , that is exactly the info I wanted . Now that the grease problem is solved I'm just wondering what I should replace the old ones with , rollers , sliders , lighter ? It's already scary fast on the take off , and I really don't care if it goes 65 , 70 or 75 top end . The stock ones from what I can gather are
24 X 18 with 22.6 gram weights .

OK I've decided FASTER on the take off ! :lol:

If it were you what gram size would you put in it ? I don't want to get crazy but a little quicker is a little better ?

TheReaper!

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:50 am 
TheReaper! wrote:
. The stock ones from what I can gather are
24 X 18 with 22.6 gram weights .

OK I've decided FASTER on the take off ! :lol:

If it were you what gram size would you put in it ? I don't want to get crazy but a little quicker is a little better ?

TheReaper!


22.6 grams???..... :ucrazy: ......from what i can remember,...the 150's weights were noticeably smaller than the BR weights,...check with the dealer on the stock rollers weight,.....i'm guessing they're around 15 - 18 grams......whatever the "stock" weight is,..go about 2 lighter....... ie - if the stockers are 22.6g, go with 20g.

If you can get Dr. Pulley Slider Weights,...do it!.... :canuck:

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:04 am 
Sawman wrote:
TheReaper! wrote:
. The stock ones from what I can gather are
24 X 18 with 22.6 gram weights .

OK I've decided FASTER on the take off ! :lol:

If it were you what gram size would you put in it ? I don't want to get crazy but a little quicker is a little better ?

TheReaper!


22.6 grams???..... :ucrazy: ......from what i can remember,...the 150's weights were noticeably smaller than the BR weights,...check with the dealer on the stock rollers weight,.....i'm guessing they're around 15 - 18 grams......whatever the "stock" weight is,..go about 2 lighter....... ie - if the stockers are 22.6g, go with 20g.

If you can get Dr. Pulley Slider Weights,...do it!.... :canuck:




I got the info on Randy Pozzi's site

"Adjust Roller Weights: Both the Honda Elite and Helix have the same 22.6 gram, 24x18mm roller weights. Decide what type of performance you want--For quick acceleration but reduced top speed, reduce the gram roller weights. For increased top speed at the expense of quick starts, increase the gram roller weights."


http://www.ch250.net/techtips/4.htm


He is THEE man on the Elite 250 . TheReaper!

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 Post subject: Re: Variator Question ? Grease or NO grease ???
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:40 am 
Sawman wrote:
22.6 grams???..... :ucrazy: ......from what i can remember,...the 150's weights were noticeably smaller than the BR weights,...check with the dealer on the stock rollers weight,.....i'm guessing they're around 15 - 18 grams......whatever the "stock" weight is,..go about 2 lighter....... ie - if the stockers are 22.6g, go with 20g.

If you can get Dr. Pulley Slider Weights,...do it!.... :canuck:


Your oops... it's a 250, not a 150 :lol:

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