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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:18 pm 
Hey guys,

I just got my 2005 BR last night. At first, I couldn't get it to start.. turns out the reason it would not start was that the kickstand was down. BR 1 - Dy1an 0 :oops:

Anyways, the scooter had one previous owner, has 5800 mileage, and has been garaged. The scooter starts right up and sounds smooth at idle; however, the acceleration is inconsistent. If I gradually open the throttle with a slow twist - allowing the BR to reach a plateau speed - before opening it further, it will respond generally well and reach ~45 mph.

However, if traveling at 5-10 mph, I snap the throttle with a quick twist and hold it at full-throttle, it accelerates only mildly to ~15-20 mph with heavy bogging.[/i]

I do not know for certain how fresh the gasoline is.. but I bought it from a "Top-Rated Seller" on eBay and all communication I had with him suggested that he was an honest, good guy. He deals motorcycles and owns several himself. And so, for what that is worth, I don't think that he would hand it over to me with aged gasoline in the tank.

I have searched around for several hours - on here and google - and watched a couple youtube videos on cleaning the carburetor (unfortunately, it was for some motorcycle, not the BR). Also, I have found a copy of the Service manual on eBay that arrived before the scooter did. And, what I lack in experience I make up for with blind confidence - so I am game for taking apart the scooter to some degree (i.e. carb disassembly).

So far, I haven't done anything to try to address the issue. I am planning to pop in a $10 spark plug and see if that helps any. Over the weekend, I will change the oil, as well.

Thanks in advance to anyone who offers some guidance. I really appreciate it!


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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:39 pm 
Try a little SeaFoam in the tank with some fresh gas.


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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:21 pm 
BKamp58 wrote:
Try a little SeaFoam in the tank with some fresh gas.


Will do, thanks!

The air cleaning system vent that feeds into the carburetor (?) wasn't properly attached.

Does anyone know where the orange hose connects to the carburetor? I started taking it apart and cant find where it goes into..


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n00bie


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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:49 am 
Don't use any seafoam or do anything to the bike for a week. Just ride it like you normally would then let the gas go to empty. The bike will run normally in about a couple of days after the new gas runs through.


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Habitual Offender
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:24 am 
Congratz on the sweet yellow!! I just love them myself.
Go up one floor, to viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14945.
It's all there, the steps are all there to make your yellow go way better then stock.
Just do 1 step at a time.
You got a BR bible, and seem like your going to crack into it, so man enjoy the learning, it's been wonderful for me.
I never worked on one, hell I never took a long trip on one either, until I found this site, and these good folks and great mechanics.


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Donkey Puncher
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:29 am 
Most likely the carb / jets need de gummed...
But you may as well do this first anyway.
Buy a new spark plug and fuel filter. May as well do the air filter too, unless it looks good.

Remove the left side panel to access all the bits

From the filler neck, siphon as much of the old gas out of the tank as possible.
There is a drain on the carb with a hose attached to the bottom. Feed or extend it into a catch container or basin.
Crack open the drain screw and let the fuel pump push as much of the old gas out as possible. You'll have to cycle the key several times.

Install new inline fuel filer.
Fill with fresh gas and let the pump run until fresh gas is coming out the drain line.

This way, you know most all of the old fuel is gone.
Now when it still is hard to start and bogs on throttling, send off for a new set of larger jets and clean out the carb.


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CANADIUS MAXIMUS
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:58 am 
your shop is wayyyyyyyy too clean Chuck..... :lol:

:canuck:

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:50 am 
Wow, thank you guys so much for all the responses! And yes, BR bible for sure. I can't believe how well organized this site is.

Here's an update:
It turns out that the air cleaner vent tube that attaches to the side of the carburetor was disconnected.

Only problem is that I didn't realize this until I had taken all the hoses off the carb and unscrewed the top dome lid. There was a spring and a brass needle. I tried to put everything back correctly but something is wrong..

Now, when I turn the bike on, the fuel pump pushes gas right through the carburetor and out of the drain hose. It sounds like it might be that the "float" is stuck.. But I only removed the brass needle/diaphragm assembly...

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Dylan


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Donkey Puncher
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:00 am 
If its really running out the drain hose, and not around it, the it has to have the drain screw open.

If the float is stuck, then it could be just overflowing and running out of somewhere and down the hose, appearing to be coming out of it.
I've never had a stuck float on the BR, so not sure, but it can possibly fill up the engine cylinder with fuel and cause major issues if cranked over. (hydro locked).
Be careful :shock:



Under where the float hinges the needle valve is located with a spring. It needs to move freely and be assembled in proper order.


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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:55 pm 
Thanks Chucktuna and all others - very helpful

So, the drain screw was still left open from when I originally began my attempt at removing the carb. If I tighten the drain screw and try to crank the engine - it turns over and doesn't start. I only tried twice because of what Chuck mentioned about Hydro-seize if the engine cylinder is flooded with fuel. Should I keep trying to get it started or just wait to have a mechanic look at it?

Thanks again


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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:36 pm 
if it turns over smoothly, it's not hydro-locked.

you said you removed the silver dome over the vacuum chamber...
when you reinstalled the slide, did you notice the little notch (or key?) on the diaphragm edge that aligns in a small depression milled in the carb top.
if it's incorrectly aligned, the vacuum chamber that controls the slide will leak...
the main symptom of a slide vacuum problem is.... it will idle ok, but the slide won't lift when you try to give it gas.
if you've tried it several times, your plug is probably completely fouled out by now.


Be sure to install a new sparkplug....this is most important if you've been running very rich or if there is any question as to your fuel integrity.

When you closed the bowl drain, did you hear the fuel pump clicking when you turned on the key?

have you run your battery down too low while trying to crank it?

all these are things to be aware of while troubleshooting

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:44 pm 
Note: the thread title referred to my initial problem - which turned out to be a disconnected air vent tube that attached to the side of the carburetor. Unfortunately, I overlooked this issue and attempted to remove the carburetor. During this process, I removed the vacuum chamber diaphragm and spring, then re-installed the diaphragm incorrectly. Also, I left the carburetor drain screw open so that gasoline poored directly out of the drain hose when I turned the bike on. Clearly, I am clueless about bikes and generally absent-minded.. the scooter has 5800 miles and the vacuum chamber and under the slide was spotless.

BRed: Originally, I did see that notch and managed to align it properly into the groove. However, I also managed to put the vacuum chamber cap on 180 degrees from the correct alignment, leaving the rubber from the notch exposed. Maybe this had a similar effect on the vacuum seal. I fixed the misaligned dome cap to the vacuum chamber.

Good call on the battery and spark plug. I am drip charging the battery, which was running low - holding somewhere between 0- <80% according to the blinking light on my walmart charger. It is charging now. The spark plug was moist and blackened between the threads and on the prong, but not caked. Also, a bit of fluid (gasoline? not sure) dribbled out of the slot upon removing the plug. I will make sure to get a fresh plug before I attempt to start her up again.

When I tightened the drain screw, the fuel pump clicked for ~5 seconds. I toggled the ignition switch off/on and it clicked twice. I toggled once more and did not hear any clicks, which I think means that the fuel had been adequately pushed through the lines. After this, I tried to start the bike several times and - probably foolishly - turned the throttle several times to encourage it to start. It didn't start but sounded like it wanted to at one point. I may have flooded the engine by turning it over so many times.

I am going to call it a night and see what I can do in the morning. Thanks again!


BRed wrote:
if it turns over smoothly, it's not hydro-locked.

you said you removed the silver dome over the vacuum chamber...
when you reinstalled the slide, did you notice the little notch (or key?) on the diaphragm edge that aligns in a small depression milled in the carb top.
if it's incorrectly aligned, the vacuum chamber that controls the slide will leak...
the main symptom of a slide vacuum problem is.... it will idle ok, but the slide won't lift when you try to give it gas.
if you've tried it several times, your plug is probably completely fouled out by now.


Be sure to install a new sparkplug....this is most important if you've been running very rich or if there is any question as to your fuel integrity.

When you closed the bowl drain, did you hear the fuel pump clicking when you turned on the key?

have you run your battery down too low while trying to crank it?

all these are things to be aware of while troubleshooting


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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:32 am 
it sounds like it's close to firing up.

a couple of more suggestions based on what you've seen and done....
before you install your new plug, use your freshly charged battery to turn the engine over a couple of seconds.
Check around the sparkplug port to see if anything comes out (probably not?)

As soon as you get it to fire up and are satisfied that it's running correctly, take it home and change the oil...
the bad part of flooding the engine is that it washes the oil off the cylinder...
the worse part is that it dilutes your engine oil so it keeps happening, again and again.

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:16 pm 
.


Last edited by Dy1anMAC on Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Help Requested - Gradual Opening = OK; Quick twist = Bogged
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:35 pm 
viewtopic.php?f=169&t=93359&p=1572991#p1572991
even thoughthe top dogs found me, I thought I might move my inquiry over to the help section
pics° albeit shite

Gas did come out of the spark plug slot. It is currently sitting with the carb drained and spark plug out. When I feathered the gas it did want to start. No starter fluid on hand at the moment.
Dy1anMAC wrote:
Much appreciated, BRed. I now have two fresh spark plugs, a quart of oil, and seafoam at my disposal.

I turned the engine over with the spark plug out - no gas came out. I put in the fresh spark plug and tried to start it but it wouldn't catch.

If the engine is flooded, would it not start? If it is flooded, is there some way for me to fix it? (will search threads now, too)




BRed wrote:
it sounds like it's close to firing up.

a couple of more suggestions based on what you've seen and done....
before you install your new plug, use your freshly charged battery to turn the engine over a couple of seconds.
Check around the sparkplug port to see if anything comes out (probably not?)

As soon as you get it to fire up and are satisfied that it's running correctly, take it home and change the oil...
the bad part of flooding the engine is that it washes the oil off the cylinder...
the worse part is that it dilutes your engine oil so it keeps happening, again and again.


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