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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:42 pm 
I am preparing to start a new Big Ruckus build and this one may be a little extreme!

Bob Ross of Charlotte, NC recently contacted me and asked if I would be interested in modding his '06 BR.
At first I thought it was just a basic CVT upgrade with retuned carb and valves, but after talking with Bob he was interested in pushing it to the limit.
This time of year is a little late to start a job of this sort (most us do it in the dead of winter) but the challenges of trying something completely new
intrigued me and Bob was agreeable to the fact that it might take a bit longer than normal and to the costs and risks involved, since we're going
waaay beyond my comfort zone.

Image

After reading over the tuning for a Beams exhaust thread, Bob asked if there were things I would have done differently if not limited by my budget and I told him there were.

So here's what we are going to attempt to do:

J. Costa variator JC647FS
DR Pulley HiT adjustable clutch 410801
MSD single cylinder programmable ignition module #4217
European Foresight FES250 carburetor (stock jetted at 42 slow/115 main)
Jekyll Carbon Fiber tunable exhaust
Modified snorkel intake with K&N Filter

most of the components are on hand or on the way.

I've stripped Bob's BR and did a thorough check to make sure everything is in optimal condition before I start this project.
His scoot has 6200 miles, is in good shape and is just getting broken in well.

I'm installing a Veypor harness so we can document and verify the results.

A local Quad racer has agreed to help me get the MSD 4217 programmable ignition module setup to start the bike.
I agreed to donate the time and labor it takes to get the programmable MSD igniter working with the MF04E engine, Foresight carb and the Jekyll exhaust.

The MSD has 2 timing curve maps so one can be set for highway and one can be set for racing, switchable on the fly.
It has dual rev limiters for each map, one for launch and one for top end. You can program the rev limits where ever you want out to 16,000rpm.
The MF04E engine was designed with a redline of 10,500rpm but Honda rev limits the BR to 8500, the Reflex to 9000 and the Foresight to 9500.

We intend to find out just how BAD a BR can be! :banger:
this should be interesting.


Stay tuned!!

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Shot Caller
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:10 pm 
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

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Rusty Trombonner
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:16 pm 
:popcorn:

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Habitual Offender
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:41 am 
Image
Take lots of photos. :popcorn:


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Donkey Puncher
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:56 am 
:banger:
Way to go Ed.
My gut tells me the carb will probably have the biggest single impact, but with the tunability of all these components, its going to be needed.

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:18 am 
Very interested in seeing how the MSD works. I have the Costa, intake,exhaust,HiT clutch and a modified carb. Also have a Foresight carb that's been sitting uninstalled for a year. Could you tell me more about the model of HiT you're using. That number is different than the one I have.


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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:09 pm 
Hal9000, I was hoping you would catch this and post.

The DR Pulley Hi Torque clutch for the Reflex just underwent a model # change according to my email from their tech support....
that's the number they recommended.

I double checked and confirmed it on their website that they now list a new number for the Honda MF04E series.
The older number for CN250 series is still listed but the new number is specific to the Reflex and Foresight.
I don't yet know what the differences are but the new one is on the way.

The new HiT clutch comes with 6 sets of 3 springs, 3 for the flyarms and 3 for the pillow blocks.
18 springs.....that's a box full of springs!

How is yours doing?
I remembered that you had bought one but hadn't seen any feedback from the installation.
If it works as described it has to be one of the coolest clutch designs I've seen.

Which Foresight carb do you have.....I've seen 3 different versions from the late 90's to mid-2000.
Several looked pretty intimidating as far as the wiring harness and I know at least one version used a CDI instead of an ECU.
Does yours have the accelerator pump? I may want to pick your brain about these two items.

I told Bob he may want to talk with you at some point about your BR's brake upgrade.....
with the powertrain upgrades he's getting, he may need a disc rear brake! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:38 pm 
:popcorn:

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Shot Caller
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:48 pm 
:popcorn:

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:45 pm 
Any Cylinder Head mods planned?


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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:35 pm 
Not at this point.....it was Glasswar that did the 290 Malossi cylinder kit upgrade?

I just checked his posts:
he siezed his engine from a blown crankcase gasket Aug 6, 2010
his mechanic started the Malossi kit install Aug 17, 2010
he started the break-in on the super tight Malossi 290 kit Sept. 14, 2010
he completed the 500 mile easy running break-in on Oct. 18, 2010 and was finally ready to open it up some
his last post here was in Oct. 23, 2010.

That doesn't bode well. :|

I hope he's still cruising and I wish there was a way to contact him, but I've yet to hear a positive scenario of a cylinder upgrade kit on a Honda 250 engine.
I was hoping he would have some good news to report.

Unfortunately, I have heard about a dozen horror stories from riders around the world who have tried this.
Nothing (and I mean nothing), beats a stock Honda engine for reliability.
so unless I hear some really good news from Glasswar, no cylinder kits.

Of course, they do make a performance cam........ :wasted:

Nooooooooo!

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CANADIUS MAXIMUS
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:45 am 
chucktuna wrote:
:banger:
Way to go Ed.
My gut tells me the carb will probably have the biggest single impact, but with the tunability of all these components, its going to be needed.



I'm thinking the carb with the programmable ignition will be a BIG gain,....sounds cool Ed !

As for that Molossi kit,....you mentioned "super tight",....maybe the break-in needs to be done just a tad differently than "the normal",.....if theyre 'tight'....and tolerences are good, and materials are good,....theres no reason why they shouldnt last..... :meh:

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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:02 pm 
Since we decided to document this build for posterity, it will be photo intensive!
(note that it takes 2.3 times as long to photograph and document a job as takes to do the actual work!)
and you end up with a greasy camera! :lol:


First some pics of the initial inspection and teardown:


Bob's cool alligator skin seat:

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opening the CVT:

Image


the normal debris you'll see in a CVT filter:

Image

The first sign of an over filled crankcase from following the directions in the owners manual and some 2006 model oddness....
the 2005s have a plug in that catch tube so you can drain it easily....a +1 for the yellow ones! :lol:

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when I opened the airbox, a little oil ran out and the filter, with 6200 miles, was a little oily and was fairly dirty, as is normal for the BR

Image

Image

all in all pretty typical for a low mileage BR.

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Last edited by BRed on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build..Veypor Install
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:50 pm 
Phase 2....the Veypor install.

The What and Why of a Veypor.

A Veypor is a tuner's computer. It connects to the coil to count rpm and it has a wheel mounted sensor to accurately measure speed by counting revolutions of the wheel.
It also has a 3 axis accelerometer to measure HP, torque and G-forces. The HP and torque measurements are only as accurate as the total weight of the bike and rider that YOU input into the profile.
The BR weights 365lbs. dry and about 385 topped up with fluids...add to that 185lbs for rider and gear (more or less, depending on the rider).
If you have accessories, luggage, tools and passenger, MORE weight!
For my purposes here, I used 585 lbs.

Built into the Veypor is PROM based software to use as a trip computer, an odometer, an electronic fuel gauge and timing run software for roll-ons at speed, 1/4 mile runs and full time data logging to see how it does in the Long Run.
A useful tool and one that removes rider bias and subjectivity and replaces it with COLD, HARD facts.

It can be a heartbreaker to those tuners who think their speedometer and seat-of-the-pants DYNO wouldn't lie to them.

It also is a very accurate speedometer and tach!
It's one of the best tools a scooter tuner can use to determine what works and what is a waste of time.

see it here:
http://www.veypor.com/

the manual
http://www.veypor.com/usermanual/VeyporManual.pdf


The first major job was to install the Veypor's harness:

Image

It is fairly straight forward...two wires (black and red) for 12V power, one (white) for the coil, one (yellow) for alternatively using a bike's tach as signal instead of the coil and a magnetic sensor for the wheel.
They suggest using the rear wheel's disc brake (in case you do a wheelie) but since the BR doesn't have a rear disc and only does wheelies in your dreams, I used the front disc.

Image

It uses a tiny rare earth magnet that will jump 3-4" to attach itself to anything iron.
I drilled a 1/4" hole in the rotor well beyond the reach of the calipers and cyanoacrylic glue to attach it.
If anyone has any doubts about it durability, BioHazard has covered nearly 40,000 miles since installing it, including an IronButt SS100 and crossed the continental US both ways and it's still in there!

Image

Route the sesnor wire along the hydraulic brakes lines and secure with zip ties.

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Secure the sensor head to the caliper strut within 3/4" of the magnet's sweep.

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The coil...remove the right floorboard and right side cover and you'll see the coil behind the radiator:

Image

You'll see 2 wires: blue & yellow and black & white. Since black and white are common to almost every sub-system on the bike, you want the Blue and Yellow wire.
Crimp or "bug" the white Veypor wire to the blue and yellow wire.

Image

That leaves the 12V power wires...I attached the black ground wire to the coils mounting bracket and direct connected the Red wire to the battery.
If you plan on leaving the Veypor installed on the bike full time, you'll want to use a switched wire.
If Bob decides to buy a Veypor, I'll move this lead to a switched source.

Image

Image

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Now route the connector to the Handle bars. I stole one the RAM mounts off #2 to mount the Veypor on the bars.

Image

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Now for testing the wiring:

Image

We have power!


and now the engine test:

Image

we have revs!

Done!

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Last edited by BRed on Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Iron Butt
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 Post subject: Re: A New Big Ruckus Build
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:20 pm 
After finishing the Veypor installation (about 2 hours) it was twilight, but I wanted to get a few baseline runs to shake out the bugs and make sure it was working right.

I took the bike to my favorite stretch of road, about 3/4 of a mile flat and usually abandoned at this time of the evening and made 6 or 8 runs,
doing several each way to account for wind.
Drag is huge factor to a low powered bike like the BR and should always be taken into account.
You can actually see a strong head wind on one of the runs, just after it up shifted.

Here are the first results:

RPM....very uniform from run to run, just as I had hoped...anything else would indicate a problem:

Image

note that like all stock BRs, the revs reach about 5800rpm and it up shifts...hard!
the revs drop back about 1000rpm and never go over 6000rpm until you're running 60+ mph, which is about 30 seconds after you pull out.


Image


Although the MF04E engine is capable of making about 22HP, the BR can only make about 17HP with it's stock muffler, carb and airbox.
Unfortunately with 6 - 26Gram rollers (156g total) and a dirty oil filter, it's lucky if it can make 13HP.

this is commonly seen and is true of EVERY stock BR I've tested.

Image


And for a quick comparison of what the future may hold for this new BR, here's an overlay of one of BioHazard's better runs along side today's runs on the stock bike.

BioHazard is the light blue track, in case you haven't already figured that out. :lol:
That light blue line is a stock jetted carb (40 slow, 98 main) properly tuned with a tach, using a stock variator with 3-21g and 3-18g rollers and a stock clutch with yellow Malossi springs....
check the launch rpm...about 1000rpm over stock. This launch rpm is very important to eliminating initial bog.


REVs

Image

Speed:

Image


and some stats for the best runs of Bob's stock bike:

0-50mph 13.4 -14.2 seconds
30-50mph 8.5 - 9.6 seconds
(note that #2 will do 0-60 in 9.2 seconds!)

also notice that the stock bike never reached 60mph within the 1/4 mile run

best 1/4 mile time 22.14 seconds
best 1/4 mile speed 58.60 mph
top speed on a sustained 1 mile run on flat roads (71mph speedometer indicated, 64mph Veypor indicated)

That's all I could get out of it even after 40 minutes of riding, but that also is completely normal for a stock BR with a slightly dirty air filter and an untuned carb.

Before installing all the cool aftermarket stuff, I will retune the carb, replace the filter, adjust the valves, add some heavier clutch springs and install lighter rollers.
I told Bob he would still want the stock variator tuned as a backup, just in case.....J. Costa variators are hot, but they wear out extremely fast.
You have to keep a constant eye on them as a daily runner.

I will do a few Veypor runs after each individual step so the Big Ruckus community here can see what has the most effect on performance.

After tuning about 20 BRs, I have a pretty good idea of what affects overall performance the most and you'll be surprised to find it isn't always what you would think.

Stay tuned!

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