Our motto says it all: "We would like to ride in zoomer which is not easily defeated by anyone."

Members Rides Members Rides   TR Ride of the Month TR ROTM   * Ride Utility   Scoot TV Scoot TV   Support TR buy a shirt! TR Store * Login * Register
* FAQ 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 199 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next
Author Message

Iron Butt
Iron Butt
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3886
Location: Bethany, NC
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject: DR Pulley slider upgrade kit
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:45 am 
It's been deathly quiet here lately, so I thought I throw this out.....
my New Years mods for testing (no, it never stops!) :D

I think this kit deserves to be called "an upgrade", since you get 6 DR sliders (23 gram or 19 gram) and a new set of ramp plate guides made of the same stuff...... here's what they looked like out the box:

Image

The ramp guides were a perfect fit and already relieved on the corners.....
some of you may remember a post I made about polishing these up for free movement...well, consider it done!

The included guides from DR Pulley allowed the ramp slide without effort.

Image

remove the rollers and drop in the sliders........

Image

Everythings back in and ready for tomorrow....
I did two 0-60 runs with the Costa on the Veypor before installing the sliders.
This week I'll get some info and graphs as the sliders wear in, then I'll test them head to head against 114 grams of standard rollers.

with rollers after you got under 120-125 grams of total weight you started losing some top end....
it will be interesting to see it the sharp shouldered face of the slider changes this.
After I get the data, I'll post a chart of the runs with each combo overlaid.

I wish I had had the Veypor when I was testing all the other roller combos.....it would have saved me from doing the math!

here's a pic of the Costa now showing pin wear from 7700 HARD miles.....
half down the Interstate to California and then backroads back across the US with the CannonBall run.
They still work fine although the shiftpoint rpm gets a bit lower with age.....the Veypor before and after runs clearly show this graphically.

I flipped one pin so you can see the weight slug:

Image


also I blew the rubber and clutchpad debris out of the clutch bell housing and caught the cloud of dust that comes out:

Image



Also a few pics of the VRod seat since most of you at CCoN saw the "lawnmower seat".....the lawnmower seat got hard after about 6 hours and I swapped it in July, just before I rode the BR to KC, but the ride proved the Harley seat just wasn't right yet. It was too low in the front, so I kept adding shims until it felt right then I changed the angle of the mounts for the CannonBall ride based on the ealier ride.
Now it's right! :wink:

Not only is it lightweight and very low, but with a few internal mods and the sheepskin cover and the new tipped angle, it IS a 24 Hour saddle....
no seating issues of any type with this seat.
It's close to perfection.....
Well, for my ass anyway... :D

Image

Image

Image

Image

BioHazard is back in full commuter mode, but we're looking forward to seeing what these sliders will do!




BTW, the slider kit supposedly it will fit these variators:
KYMCO 250cc & PGO 250cc

Scooter & ATV ,Buggy

Grand Dink 250 /Grand Vista 250
People 250
XCITING 250
EGO 250 / Bet & Win 250
PGO :
G-MAX 250 ;Bugxter 250 ;
Bugrider 250 & 250R
and

HONDA:
FORZA 250
FORESIGHT 250
98
CN250 / CH250

PEUGEOT:
SV250

PIAGGIO:
X9 250 4T LC
HEXAGON 250

SUZUKI:
BURGMAN 250

It fits the BR perfectly.
I used the stock variator, boss and fixed face for the slider test.

more to come.........

_________________
BioHazard


Image



"You live and learn......at any rate, you live."
~Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 

Chicken & Waffles
Chicken & Waffles
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 2844
Location: Statesboro, Ga.
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:30 am 
Once again Great job BRed. Very detailedd and thorough. I am getting some sliers at CCon this June. I'm also very ineterested in the new seat.
Latley I havefelt the desire to be just a little lower when riding.

_________________
Approach life's problems like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, pee on it and walk away.

CarolinaCoN 2017, June 7-11 Roanoke Rapids, NC #10
2012 Majesty

CarolinaCoN 2008-2016
WAN's farewell '08
2006 BR 38,500 miles 9/07-11/13 (R.I.P.)


Top
 Profile  
 

CANADIUS MAXIMUS
CANADIUS MAXIMUS
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 6102
Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada!
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:20 am 
ya,...it would be cool to actually see a graph of the differences between the costa and the siders in the stock variator. I've been running the sliders for a couple years, love the way they work, but have no way of plotting it on paper, just 'seat-of-the-pants' feel.... 8)
I bought my sliders from scootertrap, 19's & 21's, both sets came with the backerplate guides. The first set of guides actually did'nt last well at all... :| .....i can't recall the exact mileage, but i'm gonna guess it was only a couple thousand liometers, and when i went in to check the sliders & belt, etc, one of the backerplate guides was missing a big piece of its corner, and had another crack,....absolutely no clue as to why,..i still have the 2nd set of guides, as i went back to the honda guides.... :|

Looking forward to see the difference, off of the same bike.

Keep us posted ed.

_________________
Stimpy433 wrote:
....If you don't get a refund then shit in a box and UPS it to him....

2005 BIGUS Ruckus


viewtopic.php?f=95&t=41664


....ya....thats right...."PS-600".....bite me


Top
 Profile  
 

Iron Butt
Iron Butt
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3886
Location: Bethany, NC
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:24 pm 
OK, some results!

My first impression of the DR sliders is they are definitely an improvement on the stock configuration.....
in fact at bottom end, they very nearly duplicate the Costa's performance.

here are some graphs with 3 runs each of the Costa and the DR Pulley sliders for comparison........

The first shows the complete page with stats for one 1/4 mile run on the left....

Image



now the speed readout........

Image

At the end of 14 seconds, they were within a few miles per hour, neck and neck!


Image

scaled HP reading of same (note peak HP within first 2 seconds!)
then compare to the rpm chart to for timeline....
peak HP occurs just after the clutch flyweight pads bite, while rpms are dropping as the engine loads up!

The top speed I reached with the sliders was about 75, but I haven't tested the sliders on the Interstate ......
my gut feeling is that I lost about 5 mph on topend, which is comparable to the standard rollers once undr 120 grams.

But the story doesn't end there.....the rpm readout tells another tale!

note what happens at about 5 seconds, just after the main upshift......

Image
scaled rpm reading of all 6 runs (1 for each mod on 3 different roads)

The DR Pulley sliders continue to increase in rpms, for the same acceleration curve. The J.Costa maintains the same speeds, but the engine rpms fall off rapidly.....
about 2000rpm lower for the same curve.

Lower engine rpm mean two things to me......
1) I'm using less fuel for the same distance covered!
2) The lower the engine rpms at any given speed, the more reserve capacity I have to work with.....
that can mean more of a safety margin, or.... more power to exploit? :twisted:


It also tells me that the sliders have a big advantage on pulling steep grades, one area where the Costa's performance was lacking.
If I rode only in the city and rarely hit the Interstates, I think the sliders might be the way to go.....
of course I still need to compare them against 114 grams of standard rollers and give them a try on the
Interstate to see what their top end is.

One last photo...
this was a run I left out of the other graphs but I thought it was interesting....

What do you think happened here? :D


Image

_________________
BioHazard


Image



"You live and learn......at any rate, you live."
~Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 

Chicken & Waffles
Chicken & Waffles
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 2844
Location: Statesboro, Ga.
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:08 pm 
Can ya beak it down for me real s-l-o-w. I see some colored lines and don't know which is which. and who's on first, what's on second, I don't know is on third.

_________________
Approach life's problems like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, pee on it and walk away.

CarolinaCoN 2017, June 7-11 Roanoke Rapids, NC #10
2012 Majesty

CarolinaCoN 2008-2016
WAN's farewell '08
2006 BR 38,500 miles 9/07-11/13 (R.I.P.)


Top
 Profile  
 

CANADIUS MAXIMUS
CANADIUS MAXIMUS
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 6102
Location: Trenton, Ontario, Canada!
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:17 pm 
LOL .....long-story-made-short,....just for you ya hill-billy,... :wink:

like i said earlier,...all my running of these various mods are "seat-of-the-pants" feel,...AND running agaianst a few other BR's,....the sliders worked very well..... 8)


.....the Dr. Pulley's are a BIG improvement over stock,...not quite as good as the Costa,.....but ALOT less money!....hence,...I'm dropping some into your BR this June!!..... :banger:

_________________
Stimpy433 wrote:
....If you don't get a refund then shit in a box and UPS it to him....

2005 BIGUS Ruckus


viewtopic.php?f=95&t=41664


....ya....thats right...."PS-600".....bite me


Top
 Profile  
 

Junior Mint
Junior Mint

Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 235
Location: Charleston South Carolina
Gender: Dude
Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:56 pm 
Wait a minute, I agree with Brother Roscoe. Are the colored lines different
runs (trials) or what ?? Where's the legend ??
I'm a decent engineer but I can't tell the players without a scorecard. Plus I probably need tutoring. I like your choice of colors, though. Austin

_________________
It's not what path you take through life that's
important, but rather what you become on
the journey


Top
 Profile  
 

Iron Butt
Iron Butt
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3886
Location: Bethany, NC
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:01 pm 
what Sawman said...... :D

but for the record, the brown, blue and red lines (and the black one in the last graph) were from the DR sliders.......

the green, yellow and purple lines were the J. Costa......

the rpm chart at 5 seconds separates the two mods and clearly identifies them......
and the point of it all is, out to about 70mph they're almost identical in performance........


the big difference.....with the Costa, your engine is working less at highway speeds,
so you still have some reserve to play with >70 and you're using less fuel doing it. 8)

but, the DR sliders were only ~$50?



by the way, the "big dipper" in the black line on that last chart was when I hit the rev limiter at about 8500rpm!!!
This test definitely raises the known rev limit on the BR past 8000 revs.....
I saw 8400 rpms during several of the slider runs, a couple of times just before the limiter kicked in, as in the last graph.

_________________
BioHazard


Image



"You live and learn......at any rate, you live."
~Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 

Chicken & Waffles
Chicken & Waffles
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 2844
Location: Statesboro, Ga.
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:15 pm 
Sawman wrote:
LOL .....long-story-made-short,....just for you ya hill-billy,... :wink:

like i said earlier,...all my running of these various mods are "seat-of-the-pants" feel,...AND running agaianst a few other BR's,....the sliders worked very well..... 8)

.....the Dr. Pulley's are a BIG improvement over stock,...not quite as good as the Costa,.....but ALOT less money!....hence,...I'm dropping some into your BR this June!!..... :banger:



I appreciate the sliders, that I'll get and I know you'll appreciate the JD I'm bringing. Plus my awesome skill for standing around watching someone do the work for me. I'm good at that.
I don't mind being a redneck, but I gotta tell ya. I ain't no damn hillbilly cuz we ain't got hills down here in Statesboro. It's all flat lowcountry. Good for mudding and hunting. :beers:

Once they're in I'll race ya to hooters.

_________________
Approach life's problems like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, pee on it and walk away.

CarolinaCoN 2017, June 7-11 Roanoke Rapids, NC #10
2012 Majesty

CarolinaCoN 2008-2016
WAN's farewell '08
2006 BR 38,500 miles 9/07-11/13 (R.I.P.)


Top
 Profile  
 

Iron Butt
Iron Butt
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3886
Location: Bethany, NC
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:47 pm 
one other thing I just noticed......

on the RPM graph of the 6 trial runs, notice how close the DR sliders' curves are from initial roll on until about 6-7 seconds, when they scatter.

notice the exact opposite of the Costa, very loose at first, but once the upshift is made all three tracks are almost identical?

I think this means the pulleys' ratio after upshift are very static in the Costa, where the sliders are "searching"....
the variable pulleys' ratios are drifting, as centrifugal force and contra spring tension battle it out for dominance.

A lighter contra spring here would tighten up the sliders' curve some.....


for this to be meaningful to most riders, I guess I'll have to do a few runs with the old stock 26 gram rollers, too! :wink:

_________________
BioHazard


Image



"You live and learn......at any rate, you live."
~Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 

Iron Butt
Iron Butt
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3886
Location: Bethany, NC
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:29 am 
:D I just got an email about something I posted earlier in this thread......

when I said "neck and neck" I didn't mean six bikes running those exact results would be side by side, but I can see how you might think that.
yes they would be strung out along the highway. :wink:

I just meant the results were tight....

But maybe I should explain the results better....



I scaled all the windows so each shows the first 14.4 seconds of data for the six 0-60 runs.....3 runs each with sliders compared to the Costa.

now look at the speed graph.....
if you throw out the high and the low result, then at 14.4 seconds, the 4 remaining tracks show 54-56mph.....

then look at the rpm graph.....
at that instant of reaching 54-56mph (14.4sec), the engine was turning between 8000-8400 rpm with the DR sliders......
with the J.Costa it was turning <6400 for the same speed.

remember in these test's I kept the throttle pegged until I hit 70......

But....
I'll bet the comparison of sliders against 156gram stock rollers is going to be even more revealing.

A picture IS worth a thousand words!

_________________
BioHazard


Image



"You live and learn......at any rate, you live."
~Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 

Habitual Offender
Habitual Offender
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 357
Location: SGV...homes....
Gender: Dude
Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:12 am 
wow the veypor gauge gives you all the info?

_________________
RUCKSTERS
Killer Scooter
STANDARD Functions.
MPAB
TDRC ridas: Riskek,35 Cent, B00gie, Steve403, Red Rise


Top
 Profile  
 

Iron Butt
Iron Butt
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3886
Location: Bethany, NC
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:40 am 
and way more!

there's also a trip computer and rally computer, plus it calculates drag and fuel consumption and economy.......

and I still haven't even tried the roll on timing.......
I've used it mostly for 0-60 runs and 1/4 mile runs.

It's also a nice driving Speedometer/Tach for daily use.

_________________
BioHazard


Image



"You live and learn......at any rate, you live."
~Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 

Junior Mint
Junior Mint

Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 235
Location: Charleston South Carolina
Gender: Dude
Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:24 am 
Thank you, those of us who are slightly challenged, and those of us
who wouldn't think of even discussing it, are very appreciative. Even those
of us who won't admit it. I just bought on E-Bay, from the gentleman in
Virginia, his 6 sliders of different weights and his KN filter.He had written here on the Forum about his very much liking the sliders over the stock.
I asked him why he had sold his BR - said he just wanted a cruiser bike.
His sliders were 3 of each weight, don't remember what that added up to,
I assume it is a reasonable weight. Ed, thank you for all your work, and the professional manner you have presented it to us. You're a blessing to the BR cause. Happy Ney year to you and everyone. Even you SAW,
see I capitalized all three Letters. What a good group. Austin

_________________
It's not what path you take through life that's
important, but rather what you become on
the journey


Top
 Profile  
 

Iron Butt
Iron Butt
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3886
Location: Bethany, NC
Gender: Dude

Offline
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:43 am 
For those who might wonder about the rev limiter setting for the BR here's another interesting graph from the slider runs.........
(again Yellow and Green are the Costa)

I think these 1/4 mile runs make a strong case for 8500 rpm as max? :D

Image



That's the big advantage of the Veypor over the TinyTach for this purpose....
the TT had a slow refresh rate so when you occasionally hit the limiter,
the tach readout would be several hundred rpm low.

On the graph, the length of each line show the 1/4mile time.......

keep in mind that two of the runs were auto start....the clock starts when the bike moves
four of the runs were timed starts (3,2,1,GO!) and you can see my reaction time in the first second or so
on these runs, you also see the revs below the clutch engagement, which is about 2800-3000 rpm with the heavier springs.

I should point out that every run with the sliders that hit the limiter had a great 0-60 time! :|

After a run, when I let off, the sliders do seem to upshift some more.
I'll try to get a few 1/4 mile runs with more moderate acceleration to show this.

_________________
BioHazard


Image



"You live and learn......at any rate, you live."
~Douglas Adams


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 199 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Check out who is online and not out riding.

Rucksters browsing this forum: No rucksters and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
 
Copyright Owners: click here to report copyright infringement

Technophobes: click here if you are having issues registering or logging in

TotalRuckus.com 2005-2015 (That’s 10 F’ing years!) - All Rights Reserved --- Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group