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 Post subject: BR muffler dissection...
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:50 pm 
---1st, thanks to fstzx9(dave) for donating his muffler for destruction...

---the BR muffler's side walls(front, side and back) have 3 layers,,, 2 steel sandwiched over mat fiberglass...( i drilled holes to test all areas)
---it has 3 chambers front to back with the front chamber not used???
---the IN pipe goes directly to the back chamber and the gases are transfered to the center chamber by a separate pipe and then transfered to the OUT pipe which is buffled...
---the tail pipe that comes out the back is the end of a small muffler inserted in the OUT pipe(looks like a small "cherry bomb" type auto muffler) and will come out loose once you cut the welds in the rear of the BR muffler..
---all exhaust pressure goes to the back chamber and making holes in the rear as Ptero suggested would have a direct effort on the back pressure!!!

NOTE... honda skipped no expense in using all the heaviest steel reenforced by more steel( if you are ever ambushed by a road side bomb, hope that it's on the muffler side. you might survive!!!!

PS...i gained access by cutting the rear of the muffler off,,, the muffler can be restored by welding back the sections(i marked the sections with a center punch to help with re-alignment...

pssss... i took pictures but will have to wait for farther instructions on how to transfer them from camera to forum( i fix scooters not computers!!!)
luck,,, jimT :D


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Iron Butt
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:15 pm 
Jim, you need to create an account on an external hosting server to store them, like photoBucket or something similar.......
once they're uploaded there you can post IMG links to the photos here in your message.

http://photobucket.com/

barring that, email them to me or any other member here and we'll post them for you! :D

I'm anxious to see a muffler cross section as it would tell the various ways to drill one!

ed

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Litter Vigilante
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:45 am 
BRed wrote:
Jim, you need to create an account on an external hosting server to store them, like photoBucket or something similar.......
once they're uploaded there you can post IMG links to the photos here in your message.

http://photobucket.com/

barring that, email them to me or any other member here and we'll post them for you! :D

I'm anxious to see a muffler cross section as it would tell the various ways to drill one!

ed


I thought they had a catalytic convertor inside? Correct me, if I'm wrong.

PS. Here's a tip to get XXX photos to work on the censored board at Photobucket. Don't mention to them, though.
Just upload them, let them post it; then copy it in whatever format (ie. to
email, etc.). Then send it to yourself. You now have a reduced photo
to SHARE with US! Then be sure to delete it from Photobucket.

Had a few photos censored after they initiated the policy. Before that
you could actually show Nipples that were EXCITING AND EXCITED!!! :dirty1:

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Iron Butt
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:00 am 
Although I can't say it with 100% certainty, based strictly on what I've seen, the BR/Reflex muffler DOES contain a catalytic converter sleeve.

The exhaust pipe runs straight through the first two chambers of the muffler to the rearmost chamber and inside the pipe is a second sleeve coated with what appears to be a catalytic material. The design uses a small diameter header pipe and routes the exhaust straight through the first two chambers to the rear chamber...both features serve to keep temperatures high inside the muffler. The outer wall is layered with sound absorbing material and the exhaust gases flow directly to the rear chamber through the catalytic sleeve, then reverse direction, flowing forward into the middle chamber, then through an offset opening into the front chamber, finally reversing direction again and flowing back towards the rear and out through the small internal resonator (shorty muffler).

In essence, the exhaust gas make 3 (Three!) passes through this muffler!!

Each chamber allows progressively cooler temps, with the exhaust gases being cooled most in the non-insulated front chamber, then reheated by it's trip through the internal shorty in the hot rear chamber just before it exits.....this is a VERY complex muffler design, showing more sophistication in it's design than any I've seen......
Honda engineering at its best.

Ptero's muffler mod ports gas to the outside from the first collector chamber at the rear of the muffler, where it is still at the highest temp.
An alternate method of reducing back pressure is to drill straight up the muffler's outlet through the baffle across the exit port of the third (front) internal chamber.

I drilled mine two days ago and it does allow faster accelleration but does not give a higher top speed.....BioHazard still maxes out in the mid-7000s, supporting the theory that the BR uses a rev-limiter in it's ignition module. Drilling this baffle with the largest bit that would fit my extension made only a slight difference in the sound level, but definitely allowed faster pickup off the line and the exhaust gases definitely exit the tailpipe at higher pressure and speed.

I also confirmed that after passing through the front baffle, I could now run the extended bit the entire length of the muffler....if I had drilled the next point of contact after that baffle, the bit would have come out the front of the muffler just under where the exhaust pipe enters it.

Thanks to JimT for his excellent dissection work and detailed description and Dave (fstzx9) for donating a muffler for dissection....both have done BR and Reflex modders a great service in determining the internal structure of the BR's muffler.

Based on their dedicated work, I think any creative modder can get custom muffler performance from the stock muffler without increasing the noise level excessively or disabling the emissions controls of the stock muffler.

ed

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Looks good
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:18 am 
Check out this....Makes a stock pipe look aftermarket.

http://www.troys3ddesignart.com/


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Iron Butt
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:18 pm 
Anyone with questions about the BR's muffler should direct them to JimT since he has a disassembled one in his hands,
but to better try to explain how it works, I made a quick crude drawing showing the air flow and different components......
not as good as a picture or to scale but it helps visualize what's going on in there.........

Image


ed

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 Post subject: muffler mod!!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:35 am 
---i drilled my muffler as ed described and his performance results are the same as observed. the sound is a lower sounding pulse, perfect!!
---i got my drill extender at Lowes($6) for a 1/4" shaft. i had a 1/2" drill that's reduced to 1/4". i 1st drilled a 1/4" pilot hole, then used the 1/2" to finish.
---NOTE!!!,,, it's not that easy to drill a 1/2" hole though thin steel because the big bit tends to grab, causing the bit to twist in the extender. soooo,,, take it slow and easy! better yet! if you have have access to several 1/4" drive bits open the hole gradually. i did'nt so i took it easy...

---i drove home late last nite from a scooter rally. i rode on the expressway over orlando. i really enjoyed the sights and sound for the trip with the new throaty music my BR makes. good mod!!!!!! jimT


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Grammar Ninja
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 Post subject: Re: muffler mod!!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:45 pm 
[quote="]jimT---NOTE!!!,,, it's not that easy to drill a 1/2" hole though thin steel because the big bit tends to grab, causing the bit to twist in the extender.[/quote]

LUBE!!!!! Just use some motor oil or penetrating oil or whatever you have handy....the trick to drilling metal is keep it cool (that's what the lube is for, coolant) and go SLOWLY :wink:

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:47 pm 
Well,

I drilled a 1/4 inch hole (the largest bit I have)...don't really notice that much a difference in anything. It may sound a bit lower in pitch, but its hard to tell. Hopefully my commute to work (my control ride) will prove otherwise. But it least it doesn't hurt so far.

Would there be additional benefit doing this and the Ptero mod?


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 Post subject: muffler mod!!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:07 pm 
---glasswar,,, ed and i have drilled out the back of the OUT pipe and have given our opinion of the results. if you only put a small hole in the back plate,,,
don't be surprised with a less favored results.

note... you could use mikeS's way of making the hole! and drive a 1/2" philips head screwdriver thru the back plate!!! :shock: luck jimT 8)


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Iron Butt
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:35 pm 
I think we've mentioned it here before but....
there are limits to the improvement to be seen, IF there is a rev-limiter!
Each of the mods listed here will improve acceleration and in most cases
improve top speed over the 65mph topend and 0-60 in 17 seconds that
most riders report for their stock BR.

IMHO, the two single best mods you can do for any BR are:
1) use the TR method of valve adjustment....slightly tighter than stock
2) install lighter rollers.....120-140g for highway, 90-120g for street

these will give you the biggest bang for the least amount of bucks.

If you've rejetted, then judiciously opening up the air box will help...
carefully trimming the snorkel's restrictor flap......
Carefully!

Too much and you'll be taping it back up even if using the stock Honda filter.

A more open exhaust complements a more open intake with bigger jets....

but a rev limiter will still put a hard upper limit on how fast you can go by
shutting the ignition down or limiting how fast it will fire at topend.

I think we're there.....
if anyone with a tach has ever seen more than 7700rpm, I'd love to know about it.
If that's the case only an aftermarket CDI unit will let the BR reach speeds much
higher than 83mph, the highest GPS verified speed I've seen......
(and that was under ideal conditions!)

Unfortunately, none of the Forums that deal with the Reflex/BR engine have tried this,
and I can't find any information about this CDI, so......... we're on our own again!

Unfortunately, cutting open a CDI doesn't reveal much about how it works!

If only it could be reprogrammed! :twisted:


ed

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: muffler mod!!!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:23 pm 
jimT wrote:
note... you could use mikeS's way of making the hole! and drive a 1/2" philips head screwdriver thru the back plate!!! :shock: luck jimT 8)


actually I was thinking of doing that again with this mod as well! Hey, it worked once! :twisted:

Hey Jim, did we talk at the Tampa rally? (I was there on a CT-110 and a chihuahua)

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:59 am 
well,

with only the 1/4 inch hole, there is a noticeable performance increase in the 30-60mph range (when I rode yesterday was all in town and under 35mph for the most part)

Thanks for the tip on the large screwdriver, with the hole already there will be easier to punch it bigger rather than drill it methinks.

borrowing an impact wrench later this week and swapping in 6x21g slider weights and this baby will be close to optimal (waiting for a bit on re-jetting).


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Grammar Ninja
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:51 pm 
Hey Ed, mebbe the folks over at www.pgmfi.org could give you some Honda hacking suggestions?

As far as I know everything Honda builds has a hackable/programmable CU, all the way back into the early '80's. Which is why they're always so popular as tuners. I would figure that the CDI setup on the bikes would be similar?

Or mebbe some mc racing guys...kinda outta my knowledge base, but just a suggestion.

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 Post subject: !!!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:51 pm 
:wasted:


Last edited by jimT on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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