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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Big Refluckus Rex - A Big Ruckus/Reflex hybrid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:03 pm 
OK, so I recently got this 2006 BR. It needs some work, but while getting it back into shape I'd like to
make some changes from its stock configuration. Those changes will be to incorporate elements from
the Honda NSS250 Reflex. A couple of those modifications are rather significant and radical beyond the
jetting, exhaust and variator/clutch modifications that are probably the most often executed changes
done to the BR. Briefly, they are to change the rear drum brake over to disk brakes along with the
addition of a right rear shock to the rear suspension. Reflex rear shocks are the intended replacements
there.

While exploring and investigating the idea, differences and similarities between the BR and Reflex were
noted to the best of my ability to determine. (Mostly regarding engine and driveline) For things I'm not
so sure about, I seek the counsel of others perhaps more knowledgeable to help me navigate this project.
A partial descriptive list of things here I've found and believe to be true. But again, if someone knows for
sure differently, then I'd like to know.

Crankcase castings are the same I believe but have been treated differently. BR left case is drilled and
milled to accomodate the drum brake and the Reflex left case is not.

BR L & R cases & covers have a matte/satin black coating where the Reflex cases and covers do not have
a colored coating.

Right swingarms are different. BR swingarm holds the rear axle and has mounts for the muffler. Reflex
swingarm also accomodates a right rear shock, parking brake and caliper for the disc brake.

Distance between crankshaft and clutch spindle are the same.

Final drive transmissions are the same (same part #s)

Fixed pulley for the variator is the same (same part#) as well as the fixed pulley for the clutch. (same
part #)

Variator boss part #s are the same.

Variator rollers and the roller ramp plates are different.

Movable face pulleys for both the variator and clutch are different. (different slot angles & geometry
in the clutch) Reflex slots have more of an arc; BR slots are straighter and at a slightly different angle.
(I believe)

Clutch plates, weight set (shoes), and springs have same part #s

Clutch bells are different. Reflex has 4 elongated holes and the BR has 6 more rounded holes... so;
different part #s. One could probably assume the inner diameters are the same since fixtures and the
clutch shoes are the same.

Clutch driven face springs (contra spring) have different part #s

Contra spring set ups (guides and collars) are different.

Drive belt part #s are different as well.

Rear wheels are different.

Since the distances and belt contact surfaces >should< have the same geometries (diameter and pulley
face angle), it is beyond me as to why the drive belts are different. I can understand the differences
between how the clutch springs, different moveable faces, different carburetors and quite possibly how
the 2 different ECUs may control the ignition that it would have an effect on the acceleration profiles
between the 2 bikes. But the drive belt still mystifies me. It would seem logical that the lengths should
be the same... but maybe not. Perhaps they are made of slightly different materials and/or construction
with different coefficients of friction... I just don't know what the differences are... or why.

The ECUs are different and may function slightly different; I don't know for sure. But the BR does not
employ a tachometer. (I'll just add a "Tiny Tach" and one of those little LED charging monitor gizmos.)

Measuring the distance center of eye to eye of the rear shock mounting holes on the stock BR single rear
shock and the stock Reflex rear shock finds them to be exactly the same. (15.75")

As I understand it, carburetor jetting is different. (generally bigger on the Reflex than the BR) I can
only presume differing size in throat openings for different volumetrics of the fuel/air mixture. That's
pretty much what I know (and what I think I know) regarding the differences with the Reflex and BR
engine and driveline.


I think I'll use a Reflex clutch and drive belt and use the "B" face of the BR variator along with 19 gram
Dr Pulley sliders and the Reflex carburetor. That is, unless somebody more knowledgeable could recommend
a different, perhaps better set up in the driveline. But I do think I'd rather stick with Honda parts though.

Managing the routing of hydraulic lines, parking brake cable and getting a right side rear shock mounting
point fabricated I think can be done with a bit of creativity and determination. Frame painting will be
needed because of the welding done on the frame so a color choice other than the (boring IMO) Accurate
Silver will be put on. A bright red like Honda Winning Red or equivalent is my first choice.

What is hoped is that the changes and modifications will result in a better behaving, better looking and
better performing BR than what it might have been without any changes.

So, thoughts, ideas, suggestions and yes, even constructive criticism will be entertained. What do you
guys think of any or all of this? (especially from those that know the BR well)

_________________
Dark Side Rider
4 Reflex scoots & a Silverwing 600
Originator of the "Dark Side" Honda Reflex
Yeah dude, that IS a car tire there on the back of my scooter
Sometimes I'm so far outside of the box, the Hubble telescope can't find me


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Shot Caller
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 Post subject: Re: Big Refluckus Rex - A Big Ruckus/Reflex hybrid
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:50 pm 
Correct about the br case drilled for drum and the Reflex is not.

Correct the Reflex right swingarm holds a caliper.

Correct about the variator. The Reflex variator is not as good as the BR. The different roller ramps create a flat spot in acceleration.

Im on my phone so i can come back and answer some of the others later.

Might wanna number your questions so it'll be easier to respond.

_________________
Tony Stark was able to build this in a CAVE.... with a box of scraps!!!! - Obadiah Stane (Ironman 1)
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Ruckus Evolution.... The Punisher Build -----> The Knicks Build ------> UPDATE: The 250cc Gears of War Build (aka RuckFlex)


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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Big Refluckus Rex - A Big Ruckus/Reflex hybrid
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:56 am 
DEVHOUR3D wrote:
Correct about the br case drilled for drum and the Reflex is not.

Correct the Reflex right swingarm holds a caliper.

Correct about the variator. The Reflex variator is not as good as the BR. The different roller ramps create a flat spot in acceleration.

Im on my phone so i can come back and answer some of the others later.

Might wanna number your questions so it'll be easier to respond.


They really weren't questions but rather what I notice about the differences between the 2 bikes.
Mostly I'd like opinions, suggestions, ideas and corrections if any thing I said was incorrect.

_________________
Dark Side Rider
4 Reflex scoots & a Silverwing 600
Originator of the "Dark Side" Honda Reflex
Yeah dude, that IS a car tire there on the back of my scooter
Sometimes I'm so far outside of the box, the Hubble telescope can't find me


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Habitual Offender
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 Post subject: Re: Big Refluckus Rex - A Big Ruckus/Reflex hybrid
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:35 am 
On the back of the Erlandson Belts & Drive Technologies package that my belt came in has listed in order:
Helix (cn250) 85-07 (Elite (ch250) 85-90)
Reflex (ns250)/A/AS 2001-2007
the BR is next then the Silverwing FSC/A/D 2002-2012

Their belt fits my BR perfectly.

You will have a fun project.


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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Big Refluckus Rex - A Big Ruckus/Reflex hybrid
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:34 pm 
cheapeto wrote:
On the back of the Erlandson Belts & Drive Technologies package that my belt came in has listed in order:
Helix (cn250) 85-07 (Elite (ch250) 85-90)
Reflex (ns250)/A/AS 2001-2007
the BR is next then the Silverwing FSC/A/D 2002-2012

Their belt fits my BR perfectly.

You will have a fun project.


Well I can tell you right away that belt will not work on the FSC600
A Silverwing belt is bigger and is cogged on both sides of the belt.
That was probably just a list of Honda scooters that they have belts for.

I'm pretty excited about the prospects of doing the project, so it's
getting fun already :)

_________________
Dark Side Rider
4 Reflex scoots & a Silverwing 600
Originator of the "Dark Side" Honda Reflex
Yeah dude, that IS a car tire there on the back of my scooter
Sometimes I'm so far outside of the box, the Hubble telescope can't find me


Top
 Profile  
 

Shot Caller
Shot Caller
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 1024
Location: OH-HI-YO
Gender: Dude
Garage mechanic
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 Post subject: Re: Big Refluckus Rex - A Big Ruckus/Reflex hybrid
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:33 pm 
bandito2 wrote:
DEVHOUR3D wrote:
Correct about the br case drilled for drum and the Reflex is not.

Correct the Reflex right swingarm holds a caliper.

Correct about the variator. The Reflex variator is not as good as the BR. The different roller ramps create a flat spot in acceleration.

Im on my phone so i can come back and answer some of the others later.

Might wanna number your questions so it'll be easier to respond.


They really weren't questions but rather what I notice about the differences between the 2 bikes.
Mostly I'd like opinions, suggestions, ideas and corrections if any thing I said was incorrect.


Gotcha. I must have read that wrong.

_________________
Tony Stark was able to build this in a CAVE.... with a box of scraps!!!! - Obadiah Stane (Ironman 1)
Image

Ruckus Evolution.... The Punisher Build -----> The Knicks Build ------> UPDATE: The 250cc Gears of War Build (aka RuckFlex)


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