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Would you be interested in a 150cc Turbo-Kit for your Ruckus?
Hell yeah! Where do I sign up? Ready to purchase! 32%  32%  [ 34 ]
Sounds badass, but I need to get funds together first. 24%  24%  [ 25 ]
Maybe, if the price is right and I can afford it 34%  34%  [ 36 ]
Nah, Turbos are for trucks not rucks 8%  8%  [ 8 ]
What's a Turbo?!? 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 106
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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:00 am 
Has anyone actually measured the oil pressure on a GY6?
There is a turbo GY6 go kart that you can find several videos of on youtube, he tapped the port on the cylinder sleeve and didn't have any problems, at least not any that I could find by googling. When my -3AN oil line comes in I'll rig up a pressure gauge and get a honest reading for everyone.
Hopefully it will be adequate, I really don't want to mess with a stand alone oil system, scavenge/pressure pump etc.

The go Kart would hit 6psi quick and is running a draw through carb system, just FYI for people considering a carb.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:21 am 
no link?

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:04 am 
Quote:
no link?


You lazy fuck. That took less than 3min Google search to find:







I wish this guy had a speedometer.

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Last edited by pile o' zuma on Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:05 am 
i found those after i posted that too lol

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:58 am 
That's awesome to see a functional GY6 turbo in action! The acceleration looks reasonably quick for a heavy 4 wheel kart.

Some superchargers have a built-in oil pump. That's potentially simpler than upgrading a GY6 stator to support an electric oil pump for turbo. I doubt long turbo life is guaranteed with the low pressure GY6 pump.

I imagine that a s/c requires more fabrication work (bracket, belt, pulley, etc.), but it should be pretty straightforward for any competent fabricator. It can look very nice too. From a business perspective this may be more profitable as not as many people can easily DIY it like a turbo kit. s/c also runs cooler than turbo and may have more linear power, which is nice. It may be easier to carb-tune than turbo too. The drawbacks are more expensive parts and possibly higher fuel consumption than turbo. Fitting a s/c without sticking out too much may be an issue too:
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Supercharged 125cc Honda Monkey video - look at it fly!


edit: I feel bad for derailing this thread. Turbo GY6: Do it!


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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:21 pm 
There are several problems with your arguement.

Profitability: Hopefully but I'm not holding my breath. Either a turbo or supercharger will be prohibitively expensive to all but the most hard core speed freak. Sourcing the necessary components in the quantities whatever demand requires will be the biggest hurdle.

Those upon seeing the Youtube vids will start building their own turbo setups. So keeping the costs down will be of utmost importance given the DIY'ers around this forum.

Superchargers do not have their own built it oil pump. They carry their own supply of oil in the snout case (depending on model).
A turbo is more efficent. All but the most efficent screw-type blowers have efficency ratings far below that of a turbo. But it's that low end punch that the blower has as its advantage.

Building a cogged pulley off the stator/rotor assembly is feasible. Also the variator side could work, but so far out from a crank bearing could be asking for trouble. So aside from overall size, mounting, and plumbing it, potentially its easier to work with than a turbo.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:56 pm 
pile o' zuma wrote:
Either a turbo or supercharger will be prohibitively expensive to all but the most hard core speed freak.

Strangely enough, more than a few people here are willing to spend $2500-3500 on a GY6 swap kit instead of buying a complete new $900 GY6 scooter and DIY the swap. Fabricating an engine mount is simpler than fabricating a turbo setup. Hacking the GY6 harness is also simpler than installing and tuning EFI. Yes, the $2000+ GY6 kits include some cool add-ons like fatty wheel, but the point still stands.

Also, there are more than enough car nuts here with $25,000+ cars. A $2k force induction kit for Ruckus is peanuts. There are plenty of show Ruckuses here that will look awesome with forced induction, it might be irresistible.

pile o' zuma wrote:
Superchargers do not have their own built it oil pump.

I deal with diesels almost exclusively so it's turbos every day and I have no personal experience with superchargers (yet - a couple local customers are trying Eaton chargers on small diesels soon). However, doesn't this charger have its own oiling system (oil reseviour, oil filter, oil lines, and of course a pump driven by the supercharger)?
http://www.rotrexsuperchargers.co.uk/Ro ... Works.html
They have a kit for a Honda motorcycle, 1000cc though. I have no idea what the ideal lubrication system is like for sub-200cc superchargers.

Yes, I fully agree that turbos are more efficient by far, no argument there.

pile o' zuma wrote:
potentially its easier to work with than a turbo.

Yeah it's probably not a significant R&D job for a competent fabricator, and it could probably be made almost plug 'n play for customers.

You raised some interesting points!


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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:43 pm 
Malzone, you're confusing a blower-type supercharger with a centrifugal-type supercharger.

The blower-type is what you normally think of when staring at hot rods or a top fuel dragster. They are their own housing and positively displace air proportionate to that housing per revolution. They carry their own (seperate from the engine oil supply) lubrication in the snout. No other lubrication points.

A centrifugal-type is what you presented with the HOW IT WORKS site. It is essentially a turbo where the exhaust housing is replaced with a belt driven pulley. Methods to increase the cold side impeller rpm include, but are not limited to, a gear box overdrive type setup and very large/small ratio pulleys.
Because of this centrifugal-type is a hybrid of sorts, they share the centersection that, depending on manufacturer, depend on the engine oiling system for feed/return, like a turbo, or carry their own supply in the overdrive gear box, i.e. Vortech.

They work but have the same difficulites that turbos do with no low-rpm power. This might not be an issue with the GY6. Since the CVT essentially holds the engine at RPM X, a system could be designed around that RPM and flow rate. I could see a 20G-sized turbo modified with a belt cog to fit the GY6.

Back to the "investors." Of course. I definitely could see those with $2000 burning a hole in their pockets to drop coin for this type of product. But I certainly see more and more DIY-types actually COMPETING for the very same turbochargers on Ebay, or wherever, making the initial price threshold extremely important to the longevity of said product.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:56 pm 
Not sure if you guys googled the price of the rotrex superchargers, but they start around $2K.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:58 pm 
For the uninformed:

Look up: Aisin AMR 300

That's a reasonably sized supercharger that might just do the trick for all of us.


More information that's helped me: http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Supercharger-Steal-Part-One/A_110294/article.html

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:41 am 
pile o' zuma wrote:
Malzone, you're confusing a blower-type supercharger with a centrifugal-type supercharger.
I was just thinking of superchargers in general while you were specifically thinking of a screw/blower. Also, an oil pump driven by the pulley is very simple to design. No idea if there's a small enough supercharger out there that has that feature.

The AMR 300 is designed for 63-93HP and 660cc. Sounds like it might require too much torque to turn and it might be generally inefficient. However your idea of modifying an existing small turbo with a pulley is probably the best and most compact solution.

The IHI v24 turbo might be ideal. If I picked this up I would keep it turbo rather than spend more time and money converting it to supercharger. The IHI RHB32 turbo might be good too. I look forward to Htown Ruck's update on his RHB31 turbo setup soon. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:35 am 
Quote:
The AMR 300 is designed for 63-93HP and 660cc.
Well that's it's OEM application range.

Read this however, http://www.elsberg-tuning.dk/the%20bikes.html A Honda CD50 using this same supercharger. One snippet I took from this guy's article was he's turned down the pulley ratio as much as feasibly possible, for his engine, and getting .5bar (7.25psi) boost.

Quote:
However your idea of modifying an existing small turbo with a pulley is probably the best and most compact solution.


I do have a couple old Mitsu Evo3 16G's laying around. I could turn a shaft down and install a pulley to one just to see what would happen. Low RPM and pulley ratios might have this CFM in the engine's sweet spot.

Whether it be turbo or a blower, boost is boost no matter how you slice it. There is no one correct way to do this.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:04 pm 
Nice find! They even managed to raise boost to 1 bar (14.5 PSI)! On a 4 stroke 50cc! Thus a 150cc GY6 won't have issues producing boost with this charger.

Their boosted power gain doesn't seem significant on the 50cc:

8-10 HP before charger
10-11 HP after charger (not fully developed) with a usable rev range of 8000-12500 RPM.

That's still 2x or 3x the power of a stock Ruckus engine and on par with the most powerful stock 150cc GY6 engine, all while being potentially 100% road legal without a motorcycle licence. Possible 60MPH top speed with the right gearing. Nice. However this 50cc doesn't seem to last more than a few days.

The GY6 may utilize this supercharger better and bigger gains may be realized, especially with EFI tuning.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:13 pm 
Quote:
On a 4 stroke 50cc! Thus a 150cc GY6 won't have issues producing boost with this charger.


I wouldn't have posted on the benefits of the AMR300 if I didn't have info to back it up regarding a potential fit for our applications. Did you read the whole site? He's got that little fiddie pretty stressed. Given the extra displacement the AMR on a 150 oughta make it last for quite some time if properly checked air/fuel ratios. But I can't really speculate on carb/exhaust sizing from here on out.

Now the fun part, finding one. There's a guy on EBAY with one for sale but he wants $475+20ship! So I can't reiterate enough about the competitively pricing turbo application given something like this exists.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Ruckus GY6 150cc *TURBO-KIT* (FEELER! Need User Input)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:20 am 
"New Aisin AMR300 blowers are no longer available."

:( makes developing something with it useless IMO. It reminds me of those zoomania carbon parts id murder for.

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