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Shot Caller
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 Post subject: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:31 pm 
Image

VIDEO:

Kato's run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axyx6cGauAI

rb240's run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1kR37Ln0zM

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, I'm not an expert tuner or pro wrench head, so if you ask questions, please know what your dealing with, I'll do my best. Hopefully rb240 (who is a tuner and a pro wrench head), who was also there and dyno'd his bike can properly address them. I'm sharing this to increase my knowledge and insight and maybe give others some information that would be useful.

rb240 and I did a dyno session with Nel's from 2 Wheel Dyno and Dave from Endrigo Racing this weekend...and from the results, it sure seemed worth it to us...but a lot of the things I thought were conventional wisdom got turned upside down...this is where I'm hoping I can learn from any discussions here as the resulting adjustments were not what I was expecting.

The results above are AFTER we got the bike running well enough to have a baseline, so the gains shown are already on top of the gains I got from the new head work, swapping off the exhaust and dropping down several jet sizes.

Final run results:

Kato:
Max HP 9.8
Max Torque: 7.7

rb240:
Max HP 8.38 (Revised: sorry had it at 9.4)
Max Torque: 6.74

I have some take-a-ways and I'm really interested in your thoughts on them:

- It seems that mufflers do make a difference, at least with the gys. My yosh + ghetto header was holding me back by a huge margin. The bike before dyno session topped at 60+ (gps verified) but on the dyno it barely broke 50 before the a/f mix went crazy. It was throwing out so much fuel out the pipe the dyno was reading it rich off the chart. If you are interested in that, I think I have a video of it and will post it up. We fixed it by putting on Tony's old pipe (pretty much a straight pipe with some can welded-on) and jetting down from the 130 jet we had tried on. Results: a/f stabalized torque and hp went up. The results above are AFTER we switched to Tony's pipe.

- Bike's were both running way rich and we've been going the wrong way. Most everyone out there says if you switch to after market filter and pipe you need to go with way bigger jetting. Maybe for some but for us it was the wrong way to go. I was running a 110 which is way smaller than the 120/130+ everyone told me I should be running. I'm down to a 108 and I'm STILL RICH, but I picked up a good horse just from jetting down. Tony's now running a 104 and he's still rich....we couldn't go lower because that was the smallest jet between us. We brought jets up to 145, expecting we'd have to move up..Note: We're up in Seattle, pretty much sea level and it was about 65 degrees and (as usual up here) raining...

- Ported head seemed to make a big difference. I have the Endrigo racing head on and my max HP is up to 9.8 and torque is way up. Nels and Dave figure thats the reason I'm putting up higher numbers than Tony's bike. I'm sad to say I didn't dyno my bike prior to the head work, but I had the slowest gy up in the NW and compared to other darkside bikes, it felt, well castrated.....porting gave it new life

- Cam looks like it makes a big difference. Check out rb240s video. His bike does a quick ramp up to 8K then proceeds to do this crazy 2nd stage ramp up to to 9K+ rpms. I'm not sure I have it on video, but he had another run after this one and the dyno read 10K rpms....It could be a number of things, but consensus was the A9 CAM was driving most of it...

- Carb needle position. I tended to not mess with it, but it makes a heck of a difference. Adjustments were made to both bikes, but rb240s was most pronounce. He was able to steady his HP FLAT across low, mid and high with a needle position change. You can actually see the base run and the final run graph on the video above. According to his graph (I'll try to get it posted up as it's not in my hands) he runs close to max HP all the way up the ladder. All he did between the runs was move the needle up....what the hell. As you can see I lose HP as I move up. Consensus was valve springs and CAM might change that...

There you have it, thanks for any insights,

Adjustments made:
- swapped pipe
- added Endrigo Racing Head
- dropped down several jet sizes
- changed the needle position on the carb
- adjusted a/f mix screw

Engine specs/mods:
- P157QMJ
- Posh CDI
- 8 pole stator
- Endrigo Racing Head
- Uni filter
- performance coil
- NGK spark plug end
- NGK plug
- exhaust is a combination of a header for a kymco 125 and half of a can for a 96 cr 250
- stock carb w/ aluminum intake manifold (ported to match head) running 108 mj/38 sj
- Dr. Pulley var w/ 13g sliders
- 842 gates belt
- 1500 rpm clutch spring
- 12" wheel w 120/70 tire (need to confirm tire size)

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Last edited by kato64 on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:12 am, edited 26 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:36 am 
My mods are as follows,
155 kit, ncy cam, uni filter, straight pipe, ngk spark plug end, ngk cr6hsa plug, and 8mm spark plug wire. bike has 11 pole stator and all stock electronics.

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:28 am 
What was done to the tranny for each engine?

As for running on smaller main jets than you thought. It is all in the cam. Larger cams in general require smaller jets. They totally change the pressure through the carb compared to the pussy stock cams that come in most GY6 engines.

That being said EACH AND EVER ENGINE IS DIFFERENT!!! There is no ONE jet combination that works for every engine out there even if they are all stock gy6s.

Example. 155cc engine. Ported cylinder head, A8 Cam, TM28 carb. When tuning.. it was very happy with a 180 jet in it, but it was leaning out some in the top end. So I just keep throughing fuel at it. I ended up with a 200 main jet and it made 9.8whp (12x8 rim with a 225 tire). This also a perfect example of the needle not being correct. At idle the a/f was 13.4. WOT it was around 13.2 (depending on the rpm range), but if you drove it around at 3/8-1/2 throttle it was extremely LEAN 15:1. Grab a couple of needles and change them out and now at part throttle the a/f was the same as idle or WOT.

Side note on tuning the part throttle. On the dyno with the lean needle when doing a WOT pull the engine would only rev to around 5500rpms as soon as we changed out the needle the engine would rev to 7000rpms. We did not change anything in the tranny at all. The engine just had so much better throttle response and the engine was much happier with the a/f.

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:52 am 
KS Power wrote:
What was done to the tranny for each engine?

I'll update that above...

rb240 will have to confirm his setup. I think he's running the NCY Golden var w/ 3-13g and 3-11g sliders

KS Power wrote:
That being said EACH AND EVER ENGINE IS DIFFERENT!!! There is no ONE jet combination that works for every engine out there even if they are all stock gy6s.


Yea for sure, this is one of the reasons I posted this up...

What cam do you think I should upgrade to? I'm obviously looking at the NCY A9 cam, but heard the p-head should use a different one...

Good stuff, thanks for comments KS

oh, website link no worky, pm me how to get a hold of you via phone..

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:50 am 
I am running the ncy gold variator with 3-13g and 3-11g sliders an 842 belt and a 2000 rpm contra spring and 13" wheel. I know kato is running a 12 so that may skew numbers a little.

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:13 am 
Thought I would add this dyno:

Image

190cc engine
KS Power Ported Cylinder head and intake manifold
A14 Camshaft
Upgraded Valve Springs
NCY Tranny pack w/dr pulley sliders and 1500rpm torque spring
KS Power Modified Mikuni TM28 Carb

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:15 pm 
He said "Tranny pack". :lol:

Nice dyno BTW. That's a really nice fat power curve. Must be a monster to drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:35 am 
I still need a couple more parts before its ready to run

TypeR #126 wrote:
He said "Tranny pack". :lol:

Nice dyno BTW. That's a really nice fat power curve. Must be a monster to drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:26 pm 
wow thats cool

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 Post subject: Re: Dyno Results 9.8 hp - Adjustments not what I expected
PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:52 pm 
KS Power wrote:
Thought I would add this dyno:

Image

190cc engine
KS Power Ported Cylinder head and intake manifold
A14 Camshaft
Upgraded Valve Springs
NCY Tranny pack w/dr pulley sliders and 1500rpm torque spring
KS Power Modified Mikuni TM28 Carb




your afr seams lean look like your over 14.7 the whole time edit sorry did not see the yellow line was 13 was on my iphone


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