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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:59 pm 
I just installed a malossi variator on my 08 metro. Used a slightly used stretch belt with OEM 6g sliders. Sanded the drive face with 300 grit sandpaper so the belt had something to grip on to.

Was maxing out at 38ish mph on flats no wind. Now I'm at 45 ish flats no wind.

I weigh 160ish lbs and no other mods other than the inlet restrictor removed.

EDIT: also forgot to mention acceleration was a noticeable gain. Not crazy. But def picked up quicker from a stop.


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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 11:10 pm 
I just finished installing a Polini today with the lighter set of roller weights that came with it (5.6g I think?) The first time I fired her up after install, I heard a terrible rattle, coming directly from the CVT area. I took the cover back off and noticed the bolt that goes onto the crankshaft was really loose. I hit tighten it down with my impact being careful not to overdo it. I also hit the clutch assembly an extra time just to be sure that nut wasn't loose either, I just put on a Daytona belt as well.

The second time firing her up, I let her warm up completely and twisted the throttle a few times and no rattle. So that seems to be gone. Anyway the main reason that I'm posting is that once I took her for a ride, she sounds a bit different. Is this normal with a different than stock belt/variator setup? She seems to be running fine with out any serious rattling, bogging, stalling, etc. However this could all be in my head :/

Also, I'm about 6 ft., 175 lbs. and noticed that I wasn't really getting any more top end speed when WOT. Acceleration seems slower, but noticed that she doesn't hesitate briefly like before. Still it seems like it takes just a "tad" bit longer to get to top speed. Is this normal with the Polini? Should I go up with the weights?

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Dirty Sanchez
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:49 am 
You may need lighter rollers. Read some of the threads on tuning the variator -- it's a process of trial and error, different for everyone.
For example:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=91577

In general, lighter folks need heavier weights to get more top end, heavier folks need lighter weights. However, the same variator will work differently for different riders and different set-ups.

Make sure that you didn't mess up the splines -- the kick start washer needs to seat firmly on the splines before you tighten the nut.

It sounds like you need the service manual. For one thing, it has specs for torque on all the bolts:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=42149

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:00 pm 
P-Dub wrote:
You may need lighter rollers. Read some of the threads on tuning the variator -- it's a process of trial and error, different for everyone.
For example:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=91577

In general, lighter folks need heavier weights to get more top end, heavier folks need lighter weights. However, the same variator will work differently for different riders and different set-ups.

Make sure that you didn't mess up the splines -- the kick start washer needs to seat firmly on the splines before you tighten the nut.

It sounds like you need the service manual. For one thing, it has specs for torque on all the bolts:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=42149


Thanks, just got done going through pages and pages of this thread. Everyone that was my weight using 5.6g Polinis, was recommended to go down to the 5g Dr. Pulley sliders. Conelite seems to be a big fan of them.

Double checked the kick start washer, everything seems to be running fine and the splines checkout. No noises. Now it's just time to put the new weights in there and GET to riding around!

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:48 pm 
varroa wrote:
well, that's kind of weird.
based on graphs, one would think that the higher the rpms for a given speed (hence the lower the gearing, as in, more revolutions of an engine per revolution of a wheel), the more agility and acceleration a ruckus would have (kind of like a lower gear at the same speed in a car).
but - no, it's exactly opposite.
mechanics is a mystery :shock:


MEASURED TEST RESULTS SHOWN BELOW FROM RUCKUS TUNED ON A DYNAMOMTER-

The mystery is explained by asking, where is your motor's peak power... -What RPM?
If you rev PAST the rpm where peak power is made, you're just making noise and not accelerating as well.

The graphs below are all made at full throttle. The normal (6) roller weights are in the titles, but not for the Venom.

The Venom, with 2 graphs shown, was an absolute dog taking off with too-tall gearing and stupid-heavy 6x8g weights as delivered, so a 2nd run with a 1.5mm shim was added to lengthen the center bushing (lowering the belt closer to the shaft/losing the kick-starter washer), and 3x8g rollers= 24g, ~ 6x4g (***used only THREE 8g rollers*** :ucrazy: ). I just wanted to make it work because the Venom held rpms as more narrow rpm band, like the Polini and I didn't have any 4g rollers. :headbashing:
-but it worked!

Image

The SAME GRAPH shown switching the 2 axes--
The full-throttle motor rpms at 10, 15, and 20mph give a pretty good indication whether your drive belt is running low enough on the front pulley, and if the variator weights are low enough or not for a good take-off.


Image

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Space Docker
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:34 pm 
No Kitaco in test. :headbashing: Scoot Assn seems to be clear winner? Pics or link to this variator?

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Sith Slayer
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:36 pm 
So....I'd love to see a scooter ninja variator on there.

Also, lots of TR dudes claim they are over 50mph at the rev limiter on ruckus gears. Let's just say I find it AMAZING. :lol:

MORE gear work is needed. I doubt that a shaved drive is good enough either.

Thanks for the graphs. I know results can vary but the baseline vs one another is pretty cool.

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Sith Slayer
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:38 pm 
racerx wrote:
No Kitaco in test. :headbashing: Scoot Assn seems to be clear winner? Pics or link to this variator?



I'd like to see the SA variator vs the Polini with the same weights.

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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:37 am 
okee,

question... i'm running 120-90-10 in the rear, if i switch to a KN variator and stock belt for even more acceleration and my top speeds suffers to much.
could i switch to KN variator and polini belt to gain some more top end?

what does the polini belt do speed-wise?
does the polini belt mate up with the KN variator well?

just wondering?

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Space Docker
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:58 am 
racerx wrote:
No Kitaco in test. :headbashing: Scoot Assn seems to be clear winner? Pics or link to this variator?

http://www.exportstrength.com/product_i ... cts_id=799

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:00 am 
oldfart55 wrote:
racerx wrote:
No Kitaco in test. :headbashing: Scoot Assn seems to be clear winner? Pics or link to this variator?

http://www.exportstrength.com/product_i ... cts_id=799


If you buy the Scooter Assassins variator and run it as delivered, the results will be VERY DISAPPOINTING. The SA variator would be fine if all you ever did was ride downhill and draft behind trucks, but takeoffs will be slow because its geared soooo tall. After making the 1.5mm bushing shim, losing the kick start washer, and using only 3 of the 8g roller weights provided :ucrazy: , it still doesn't have the acceleration 0-15mph of the other setups. From 15mph on though, it really held a steady rpm range near 9k.
-I'm gonna put the 6x4g Flying Rollers that I just got in the mail in next to see how it performs.

--Out of the box, the Polini is much better developed with nothing more than weight tuning.

Note: When looking at the graphs, remember that the stock variator, and NR Magic variator, both had a stock rev limiter, so the top speed is lower because the motor wouldn't rev past 9000rpm.

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:27 am 
Im new to ruckus but have been doing ton of research and this seems like it could be the best bang for the buck in getting more speed. Currently I am 165lbs + 20lbs of gear(avg) 40lbs max and completely stock on my 2015 ruckus as it only has 300 miles on it. My current gps top speed is 42mph flat ground(38mph with bags) but Im hoping to get the final 8mph needed so I don't get killed on some roads.

It seems that there isn't a "just buy this variator for everyone" thought like I thought there would be. Heres my current options Im thinking about let me know if you would think anything else would work better, Im not trying to buy 3 variators just 1.

I was thinking polini with polini belt and 5-6g rollers(met) as everything is on amazon for prime shipping and cheap at $90. Would the CDI also be good Im trying to hold off modifying the electrical/engine as I want reliability over max performance.


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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:31 pm 
Asking "what's the best variator" is kind of like asking "what's the best beer?" Everyone has an opinion. I think this is partly because pretty much ANY aftermarket variator is an improvement over stock, if you take the time to tune it properly. The Polini seems to be the most popular, but the Polini belts have a reputation of stretching easily. Polini vari and Gates belt (PL30509) is a popular combo.

No matter what brand you have, you'll need to devote some time to trying different weights to get the max potential out of it.

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:33 am 
oldfart55 wrote:
Asking "what's the best variator" is kind of like asking "what's the best beer?" Everyone has an opinion. I think this is partly because pretty much ANY aftermarket variator is an improvement over stock, if you take the time to tune it properly. The Polini seems to be the most popular, but the Polini belts have a reputation of stretching easily. Polini vari and Gates belt (PL30509) is a popular combo.

No matter what brand you have, you'll need to devote some time to trying different weights to get the max potential out of it.


That's what im seeing. Im mostly trying to figure out how each variator will change the shifting pattern, ie which to use for each situation as Im looking for better 30+ mph torque and speed, getting to 30 isn't an issue in my opinion as I seem to out accelerate most cars around here but when I have to accelerate at 30mph Im a bit slower. My current top end is 42mph and I haven't even checked the oil level or had the tires higher than 27psi yet, plus Im wearing a full adventure style suit. Im thinking that a variator like the polini should get me to atleast 45mph but I have also seen that the kn is recommended for bigger guys which would be good for load hualing.


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 Post subject: Re: Polini vs Posh vs KN variator pg. 3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:47 pm 
harry2110 wrote:
That's what im seeing. Im mostly trying to figure out how each variator will change the shifting pattern, ie which to use for each situation as Im looking for better 30+ mph torque and speed, getting to 30 isn't an issue in my opinion as I seem to out accelerate most cars around here but when I have to accelerate at 30mph Im a bit slower. My current top end is 42mph and I haven't even checked the oil level or had the tires higher than 27psi yet, plus Im wearing a full adventure style suit. Im thinking that a variator like the polini should get me to atleast 45mph but I have also seen that the kn is recommended for bigger guys which would be good for load hualing.

As far as the shifting pattern, that's where the weight tuning comes in. Lighter weights take more rpm to upshift, so it keeps you in a lower gear, and your rpm will be higher at any given speed.

As a rough example, think of it like a 4-speed car. If your weights are too heavy, the variator will already be in 4th gear at 30mph, and the rpm will be too low to deliver any torque. With lighter weights, at 30mph, you'll still be in 3rd gear, your rpm will be higher, and you'll have some torque. The goal is to find the weights that keep you in the powerband at WOT. Basically stock and without a CDI, aim for roughly 8500rpm as a good starting point. A tach is a HUGE help for tuning, it eliminates the guesswork and you can see exactly what difference each change makes. A lot of us have the Trail Tech TTO, only about $30 from Amazon.

You'll need at least a small selection of weights to try. Maybe get a set of 5gram and a set of 6gram. You can mix weights as long as you alternate them in the variator, so that would give you three options, all 5s, all 6s, and a mix for a 5.5 average. Chances are pretty good one of those choices will work well for you.

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