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 Post subject: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:56 pm 
So I have been debating whether or not to make this thread but here we go. Hope this helps. Im going to take you thru the BASICS on how to GET more speed from your GET direct from me. This is simply a basic run thru as to what needs to be done in order to GET your bike going faster than stock and teach you how one thing effects another. Sticky Quality? I hope.

There are 2 Speed limiting factors.

They are:
1. CVT limited speed
2. Power limited speed

1. CVT limited speed
CVT limited speed is what limits your bike from going any faster regardless of power being produced.
These are determined by:
A. Variator/Belt set up
B. Gearing
C. Tire/Wheel size

SIDE NOTE: If you dont know how a CVT trans works, Take off your cover, place bike on center stand and rev it up and observe how it functions. How the Pulleys move to help you better understand the entire operation of a continuously variable transmission works.
(Credit OF :highfive: )

Image

All these factors will determine how fast your engine will be able to turn the wheel at a given RPM. Assuming you are NOT running a CDI and have a stock limiter, your top speed will depend on what Variator/belt/Wheel/Tire size you have. The Idea of "CVT" tuning is to OPTIMIZE the power that the engine is producing. The objective of CVT Tuning is to keep the GET in the "Power BAND" as long as possible while accelerating and as the CVT begins to shift. Ideal RPMs for a GET is anything above 8200rpms (I personally shoot for 8200-8900). Going lighter or heavier on weights depends on your CVT components NOT rider weight. Old myth that I debunked. If you dont Agree that's alright.

Recap: Optimized power output with your choice of Variator/Belt/Gears (Gears should only be considered after Step 2 and you run out of RPMs ie.10,500+). And If you dont have a Tach, GET ONE. Dont tune blind. I consider myself a seasoned tuner and can do it without a tach but its faster and easier to know exactly what the engine is doing. And for the LOVE OF ALL THAT IS MIGHTY do NOT change a fucken thing unless you know WHY your changing it. I get 10+ messages a Day asking what they changed but never WHy. Try and understand how these components work, what changes when you make changes. Why lighter weights cause higher rpms and how heavy weights lower rpms. Know why your changing them. Show a little enthusiasm for this hobby. Show interest in learning the tricks. Once you master it you will laugh at how simple it is.



2. Power limited speed
Once you have your CVT tuned right, you are no longer bouncing the limiter and have a couple hundred RPM's left but just dont have the "power" to push the new found gearing that occurs when you swap variators, Its time to Open up the engine and let that baby breath. I preach time and time again that if your going to get exhaust its a must to do intake or vis versa. Its just plain dumb to not do both. Rejetting is not that hard. Its easy as hell and can be done in minutes. Hard part is determining what JET's to use.

First things first. Find a test road. Any road that's semi controlled and you can do back to back runs with little traffic interruption and you can smash for a good 2-3 miles. Once you find that road, you have buy jetS<not one but a couple. Must have will be a 38-78-80-82(if you can find it) and 85.

ALL GETS ARE THE SAME, ALL GETS ARE THE SAME. This myth that every GET is different is another old myth that people need to get out of their heads. Whats different is the endless possibilities for styles of intake, length, shape, exhaust shape and length and so on. 1" longer/shorter intake runner will cause different jet requirements. Why its called rejetting not set it and forget it.

Step 1: Install exhaust and desired intake (Im not going into what intake you should run)
Step 2: Remove carb and install the 38Slow jet
Step 3: Leave stock main jet which is a 75MJ.

Installed 38/75 - Go down on your test road and record top speed
Installed 38/78 - Go down on your test road and record top speed
Installed 38/80 - Go down on your test road and record top speed
Installed 38/82 - Go down on your test road and record top speed
Installed 38/85 - Go down on your test road and record top speed

Keep a mental note as to which one felt stronger, which one hesitated, which one bogged and which one just simply didn't work at all. Write it down. Some people work better with writing things down. Whatever you have to do to help you remember. Pay attention to how the RPMs climb. If they climb faster, or slower, or if you hit the limiter faster. There is a chance that if you were hoovering right by the limiter thru the acceleration phase that you will hit it since the engine is making more power so this might cause you to have to retune your CVT (If its just minimal limiter bumps I shave 1-2mm off the driveface nipple to compensate- your on your own to figure that one out).

Once this is all said and done and you are bouncing the limiter on flats as a relatively high speed 45+ GPS confirmed, not Stock speedo, Then and only then you can add a CDI and unleash the beast.

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Last edited by ConElite on Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:32 am, edited 12 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:57 pm 
Alright, So you tuned your CVT, Your Air/fuel ratio is on point and you are maxing out your set up up in the 55+ MPH range and your tapping on 10,500rpm's door. GETs in my personal opinion should not rev higher unless you have lightened valve train (which nobody has) and stiffer springs (which nobody sells). Keep in mind this is for FLATs speeds not Hill bombing. Stupid if you tune your set up for hill bombing only, you will sacrifice rideability on flats.

Upgearing options:
1. Met final Gear ONLY
2. Full Met Gears
3. Kitaco gears

I have experience with all 3 set ups. Met final gear ONLY is the Lowest High gear you can do. Gives you a decent upgreaing but its not insane tall that you will be stuck. Full met gears is even taller and about the same as the Kitaco High gear. From my experience the Kitaco high gear is good but whines like CRAZY and for the price and availability, I would go for met gears every time (Which is what I run).

DISCLAIMER: YOU will have to retune your CVT with lighter weights. Its a must. Its like adding an overdrive in every gear in a stick shift car.

Here is a simple explanation as to how you install Final gear only, full met gears and Kitaco.

Met final gear ONLY:
The only gear you change is #6(Met final gear) There will be some play but dont Obsess over it. I ran 5k miles like this zero issues

Full met gear:
You will change out #6, #5, #4 and remove #9 washer. The #9 washer is called a thrust washer and is built into the Met #4 gear so no need for the one thats in the ruckus case. #3 gear (Driveshaft) is never changed from met over to the ruckus swing arm. Different length.

Kitaco High gear:
Kitaco comes with the #3 (Driveshaft) and the #5 (coin gear) in their kit. The rest of the gears from the ruckus are used. Its a different set up from using the met gears.

Image

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Last edited by ConElite on Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:57 pm 
My last and final Post will be on Stock Clutch modifications and Maintenance (How I maintain all the #Sushiboyz Boys) .

Stock Clutch - Should I mod it, Change Contra springs and clutch engagement springs.


Take this into consideration, before thinking about changing your contra spring, This is to help mainly for quicker acceleration. Highly recommended for people running Tall gears or if your a really really big guy.

The stock clutch is more than enough for all your Daily BEATINGs that you can throw at it. First of all, NOBODY besides Polini makes a proper fitting Contra Spring. I say proper bc You can not run the Cup with any other spring besides Polini. The cup in my research helps the contra rotate freely and allowing for smoother shifting up and down. If you don't know what cup Im talking about, this is above your performance and mechanical level.

I have used other generic springs but the problem is the inner diameter of most springs is to small thus not allowing to run the cup & causing the spring not to sit properly in the groove from the back plate of the clutch assembly which is another area that binds and causes poor shifting. What I did to help proper fitment is to enlarge the inner diameter of the contral spring. Its a lot of work but it works. Only issue you will encounter is loss in spring tension since your removing so much material. I have a generic How-To to measure spring tension that anyone can do at home. You can use this method to compare your new springs to stock strings and so on. Just one method I use to compare and tune my bikes. And remember guys, There is a Contra spring break in. Run about 0.5g-1g heavier weights for the first 50 miles then start retuning your Variator.

https://youtu.be/o9fZPbg64-s

Once you have our contra spring installed correctly and Weights are on point, You are thinking of clutch engagement springs. Stock clutch has 2. I have run Blues, Stocks and pinks. All my boys run blues, I personally always run pinks. You can find these on your own. Personally I dont think they do much. Just slips the clutch more on take off. I only use them to help with PC20 Throttle hesitation.

Maintenance

Well this is all subjective depending on who you talk. Here is how I maintain my bikes.

Engine:
Oil change every 500 miles
Use Measuring cup and do EXACTLY 600ml (560-580ml if your feeling risky)
Weight- Winter 5w-20 and Summer 5w-30 (I run 0-40w on my BB now to reduce oil consumption)
Spark plug every 3-4K miles (e3 only for me, Thanks Shady)
Check valve lash every 3-4k (More often now with BB)
Cooling system straight water wetter and water
(I only run synthetic. Personally I have always run Mobile 1, My boys all run Motul)

CVT:
Check Weights every other time I change oil
Inspect Clutch assembly for unusual Wear and tear
Belt every 2-3k miles

Transmission/Case:
Change oil every 3-4K miles
Inspect for any strange noises or excess whine

Of course, Make sure your tire pressure is pumped up. I have and always will run 40PSI. Always have always will. Less rolling resistance=MOAR SPEED.

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Last edited by ConElite on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:48 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:07 pm 
I saw where someone posted this thread as a link on facebook. Incredible job Con. :highfive: I hope all the previous posters will use this as a reference to noob questions in an effort to GEt them excited enough to want to UNDERSTAND what to do and why to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:42 pm 
could you add a number 3?

3. Maintenance - two things every new Ruckus owner should check to get faster
Oil level
tire pressure

so simple and they do make a difference- every little bit helps.

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:37 am 
thanks for the condensed version. you helped my bike GET going. whats your opinion about using aftermarket engagement and contra springs? when would it be appropriate to change that aspect.

I lightened a clutch and used heavy springs for really awesome acceleration for getting around town in a hurry/going to work. have a different clutch for weekend crusin

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:39 pm 
ConElite wrote:
Upgearing options:
1. Met final Gear ONLY
2. Full Met Gears
3. Kitaco gears
You left out one more option here. and I am wondering if with your BBB installed if you have tried the 4th option.
Upgearing options:
1. Met final Gear ONLY
2. Full Met Gears
3. Kitaco gears
4. Met final and Kitaco (should only be attempted with a Big Bore)

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:08 pm 
RuckinRonk wrote:
Upgearing options:
1. Met final Gear ONLY
2. Full Met Gears
3. Kitaco gears
4. Met final and Kitaco (should only be attempted with a Big Bore)

If you have enough power to push Full met gears on flats your already in the 60+ range before 10,500rpms. Dont know what kind of gearing Met Final+Kitaco will do but thats a good topic for Gear discussion of you have tried it. Your going to confuse people in here ronk.

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:04 pm 
I noticed a comment on facebook that they thought this thread would contain "super top secret tuning tips". Well it DOES! The basics as Con has so well outlined are the secrets that nobody seems to want to follow. Amazingly, I followed these exact instructions in the exact order he has written them after months of reading and research on TR 5 years ago and have had the same results as Con. GENIUS. :highfive:

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:18 pm 
so if i have read this correctly, by following the steps and tuning correctly you should have these speed estimations with certain mods

Tuned CVT & Carb without CDI: 45+

Tuned CVT & Carb with CDI: 55+

Tuned CVT, Carb, CDI & Gears: 60+

please correct me if i am wrong. I just want to know so i don't have unreasonable expectations once i start tuning my CVT and Carb later next week.

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:27 pm 
Nice thread, Con, I can't find one thing to disagree with! Seriously, thanks for the inspiration on intake length, to mention one...

Quote:
for the LOVE OF ALL THAT IS MIGHTY do NOT change a fucken thing unless you know WHY your changing it. I get 10+ messages a Day asking what they changed but never WHy. Try and understand how these components work, what changes when you make changes.

Couldn't agree more! Just throwing parts at it without understanding what each part does will only lead to frustration. The CVT is a system, everything is interrelated, changing any one part of it has effects on the rest of it.

This isn't really a tuning tip, just my opinion, but one of the first things you should do if the CVT is new to you, is take the cover off, fire it up on the center stand, and rev it a few times. Watch everything, see how the variator moves, how the pulleys interact, how the clutch engages, how the belt moves, etc. A good visual image can be worth a thousand questions.

My $.02 :meh:

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:08 pm 
ConElite wrote:
1. CVT limited speed
CVT limited speed is what limits your bike from going any faster regardless of power being produced.

...The Idea of "CVT" tuning is to OPTIMIZE the power that the engine is producing. The objective of CVT Tuning is to keep the GET in the "Power BAND" as long as possible while accelerating and as the CVT begins to shift. Ideal RPMs for a GET is anything above 8200rpms (I personally shoot for 8200-8900).

...And If you dont have a Tach, GET ONE. Dont tune blind.

...Try and understand how these components work, what changes when you make changes. Why lighter weights cause higher rpms and how heavy weights lower rpms. Know why your changing them. Show a little enthusiasm for this hobby. Show interest in learning the tricks. Once you master it you will laugh at how simple it is.

2. Power limited speed
Once you have your CVT tuned right, you are no longer bouncing the limiter and have a couple hundred RPM's left but just dont have the "power" to push the new found gearing that occurs when you swap variators, Its time to Open up the engine and let that baby breath. I preach time and time again that if your going to get exhaust its a must to do intake or vis versa. Its just plain dumb to not do both. Rejetting is not that hard. Its easy as hell and can be done in minutes. Hard part is determining what JET's to use.

...Once this is all said and done and you are bouncing the limiter on flats as a relatively high speed 45+ GPS confirmed, not Stock speedo, Then and only then you can add a CDI and unleash the beast.


These are some of my favorite quotes from page 1, and worth repeating.

IMPORTANT- GET A TACHOMETER.
A Trail Tech TTO is inexpensive, easy to install, and displays your maximum RPMs every time you turn the motor off.

If your rpms are too high, you may be hitting the rev limiter, or with a CDI, may be revving beyond the peak range where the power is dropping off.
If your rpms are too low, then you aren't getting close to delivering the potential power to the rear wheel.

KEEP NOTES- What are the RPMs at:
15mph-?
25mph-?
35mph-?
45mph-?

Image

Using the notes you have taken for different speeds, compare your RPMs to the graphs below and see if your tuning has the motor running in the power band early enough and staying there.

Image

After refining the CVT tuning and power with intake/carb/exhaust, then decide if taller gearing is what you want. The chart below is loaded with things to consider (maybe sick.. :ucrazy: ), and doesn't represent every CVT, but gives a general perspective on where you're headed with the different parts.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:46 pm 
ConElite wrote:
The objective of CVT Tuning is to keep the GET in the "Power BAND" as long as possible while accelerating

The graph below is showing measured results for a modified Ruckus targeting 8500-10,000rpm, like the motor with the power curves above and CDI to remove the rev limiter.
15mph= 8800rpm
25mph= 8800rpm
35mph= 8900rpm
45mph= 9100rpm
55mph= 9900rpm

Image

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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:52 pm 
The Speed vs RPM graph was with 4g weights, SA Venom variator, lengthened bushing, stock contra spring and belt
4.5g weights is what I use more often with the Polini variator and stock contra spring

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TR Ride of the Month!
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 Post subject: Re: GET FASTER - 101 - I wanna go fast!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:36 am 
You have to find the lightest possible weights but still getting full belt travel.

And to EVERYONE that obsesses over those like 1-3mm on your driveface. DONT WORRY ABOUT IT. and if your that worried about that shave a mm or 2 off your driveface nipple.

Harry, your issue is you DONT have enough power to push past 45MPH/9krpms. GET rid of your stock airbox and start tuning. and if your on stock exhaust get exhaust too. And no we will not walk you thru rejetting and what intake you should run. go do your homework and research.

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