Our motto says it all: "We would like to ride in zoomer which is not easily defeated by anyone."

Members Rides Members Rides   TR Ride of the Month TR ROTM   * Ride Utility   Scoot TV Scoot TV   Support TR buy a shirt! TR Store * Login * Register
* FAQ 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message

Space Docker
Space Docker
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3581
Location: Just north of the ol' Clampett homestead
Gender: Dude
The way it should be Garage mechanic
2011 TR Donor
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:23 am 
Okay, I know this thread is intended to be about cone-type filters, but on the subject of intake pipe diameter: When I first did the cutout on the airbox, I was still using the factory snorkel. Got best results with 38/80 jets. After switching to a 1-1/2" I.D. intake hose, I ended up with a 38/85 combo. FWIW :meh:

Image

_________________
my damaged buildthread


Top
 Profile  
 

TR Ride of the Month!
TR Ride of the Month!
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 6773
Location: SGV-4-Lyfe
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:37 am 
oldfart55 wrote:
Okay, I know this thread is intended to be about cone-type filters, but on the subject of intake pipe diameter: When I first did the cutout on the airbox, I was still using the factory snorkel. Got best results with 38/80 jets. After switching to a 1-1/2" I.D. intake hose, I ended up with a 38/85 combo. FWIW :meh:

Image

That would not be considered a runner since its still going into the stock box but interesting how the Diameter size made that much of a difference.

_________________
08 Metro- 64/58 club :banger:
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=63326
09 Metruck- SOLD
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=79193
ConElite for Mod 2016!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 

TR's High Five Guy


Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 5924
Location: Kentucky
Gender: Dude
The way it should be Garage mechanic
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:34 pm 
yea i am running a 38/90 combo with my hardware store drain pipe intake. love it!!!!!!!!! :highfive:

_________________
viewtopic.php?f=95&t=57591
"First Timer"
viewtopic.php?f=95&t=64048
"Fairly 48"
viewtopic.php?f=95&t=78643
Metruckus


Top
 Profile  
 

Sith Slayer
Sith Slayer
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 13315
Location: Milwaukee, wisCONsin
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
2011 TR Donor
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:41 pm 
here's some of my info sharing.

I ran a leo vince pipe and a slimcarb with the stock snorkel. i ran anywhere from 35-42 and tried everything from 75-92 and shimmed the needle no more than with 1 washer and i could not GET my ruckus to ever run right. It ran best with a 38/88 but bogged off the line a bit. I switched to a MNTBX intake and it ran with no bog with the 40/88. I kept dropping my main and then my slow and made it down to a 38/75 with no bog and the bike is faaaaaaaast. I think Greg's intake is larger and supplies a good supply of air. With Slim's carb i think the vacuum is stronger so it didn't need a skinny intake(stock) to pull the air in that fast. My belief is the skinny tube moved the air quicker..........too fast for my motor. I think hte larger hose pulls the air in as it needs it without having to compensate a larger jet to greet that rush of air. My best success on two different bikes is the filter ON the carb and one with the mntbx intake and stock jetting.

Before i had the slimcarb on it ran well with a 38/85 but wasn't very fast. I now love the mntbx intake but am a huge believer in both long and no runners and i have two fast bikes with a setup each way. It's all in the tune. It's not about having a larger main jet otherwise we would use bazooka runners and use a big main and have the fastest bike.

_________________
I AM my post count.

49cc-Sith Slayer-Mechanically disadvantaged-130 rear/2 shoe clutch
66cc-Annakin
49cc-2007 Honda Metropolitan- gonna make it super cute, build thread to come

Its easier to tell the truth than to defend a lie.......for some.

75/49 Founder


Top
 Profile  
 

One of Us
One of Us
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 658
Location: Orlando, FL
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:10 pm 
:popcorn: so glad this thread exists as I've been curious about a few things.

How well/bad do straight runners perform? Something like a 3-4" tube with a filter, like a velocity stack. I'm guessing the ID would play the biggest role on a straight runner performance?
What filters are you guys running and how big of a difference do they make on your setup?

_________________
Click->Build Thread

Image
Instagram: @gotaaay


Top
 Profile  
 

Sith Slayer
Sith Slayer
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 13315
Location: Milwaukee, wisCONsin
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
2011 TR Donor
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:46 pm 
BaconLiar wrote:
:popcorn: so glad this thread exists as I've been curious about a few things.

How well/bad do straight runners perform? Something like a 3-4" tube with a filter, like a velocity stack. I'm guessing the ID would play the biggest role on a straight runner performance?
What filters are you guys running and how big of a difference do they make on your setup?


i guess that's what this thread IS about. all this stuff plays a roll and when you are only dealing with 50cc the outcomes and results are staggering.

_________________
I AM my post count.

49cc-Sith Slayer-Mechanically disadvantaged-130 rear/2 shoe clutch
66cc-Annakin
49cc-2007 Honda Metropolitan- gonna make it super cute, build thread to come

Its easier to tell the truth than to defend a lie.......for some.

75/49 Founder


Top
 Profile  
 

Sith Slayer
Sith Slayer
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 13315
Location: Milwaukee, wisCONsin
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
2011 TR Donor
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:55 am 
I think you can GET good results either way. I've heard that the filter on the carb causes unwanted turbulence or stuff like that and it makes me giggle. Have you ever seen high performance muscle cars with velocity stacks right on the carb? It can work. Just got to tune it for that setup. Also, I wouldn't GET all bent because your jets don't match somebody else's jetting either. Your intake, pipe, and motor may not flow as well or better than someone else's.

So many gy6 carbs use filter on the carb and pc20 users usually run it like that too. PC20 carbs have very good top end and i don't ever hear them crying unwanted turbulence on flats. :meh: But I do think that carb is a bit oversized for our stock motor.



Just remember........higher jetting doesn't mean faster.

_________________
I AM my post count.

49cc-Sith Slayer-Mechanically disadvantaged-130 rear/2 shoe clutch
66cc-Annakin
49cc-2007 Honda Metropolitan- gonna make it super cute, build thread to come

Its easier to tell the truth than to defend a lie.......for some.

75/49 Founder


Top
 Profile  
 

Habitual Offender
Habitual Offender
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 294
Location: Athens, Ohio
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:15 pm 
It's probably more complicated than it is worth but has anyone thought about a long runner with a plenum in the middle.
I am thinking something like this.
Image

I actually started the fiberglass work on it but I don't have any good pics of it yet.

The theory behind it, as I understand it, is this:
Air is drawn in through a large filter and into the large plenum area.
This large area allows the turbulent air being drawn through the filter to smooth out a bit.
Then this larger volume of air is drawn into a smaller velocity stack type area that is built into the plenum.
This further straightens out and speeds up the air insuring a nice high velocity flow through the carb.
This smooth high velocity flow insures proper and complete fuel/air mixing once the fuel is drawn into the air stream.

I could probably load this shape (which I will show when it is finish and I have some pics) into some fluid dynamics softeware we have at work and really tweak and tune the design but the results would more than likely not be noticed on a 50cc engine.

Generally if you have some smooth transitions from the larger filter to smaller carb opening and the proper volume for the plenum given your engine size then the system will work.

I can't say how much more power it will make and I will probably never dyno this thing to ever know.
However I am hoping that it will be at least better than the stock airbox and should complement my new exhaust well.

_________________
Cafe Racer Retro Metro---->http://totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=67296


Top
 Profile  
 

Sith Slayer
Sith Slayer
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 13315
Location: Milwaukee, wisCONsin
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
2011 TR Donor
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:04 pm 
i think it's a great idea. i've wanted to do something similar but haven't.

_________________
I AM my post count.

49cc-Sith Slayer-Mechanically disadvantaged-130 rear/2 shoe clutch
66cc-Annakin
49cc-2007 Honda Metropolitan- gonna make it super cute, build thread to come

Its easier to tell the truth than to defend a lie.......for some.

75/49 Founder


Top
 Profile  
 

One of Us
One of Us
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 738
Location: upstate NY
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:11 pm 
oldfart55 wrote:
Okay, I know this thread is intended to be about cone-type filters, but on the subject of intake pipe diameter: When I first did the cutout on the airbox, I was still using the factory snorkel. Got best results with 38/80 jets. After switching to a 1-1/2" I.D. intake hose, I ended up with a 38/85 combo. FWIW :meh:

Image


Did you plug up the area where the air enters the box from factory? The small opening on the bottom right of the airbox cover

_________________
Hopper ... viewtopic.php?f=95&t=63389&p=1068243#p1068243

MetII ... viewtopic.php?f=95&t=87633


Top
 Profile  
 

TR Ride of the Month!
TR Ride of the Month!
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 6773
Location: SGV-4-Lyfe
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:35 pm 
Thats an interesting design vwhammer. let us know how it works out.

Well I did some testing Yesterday.

I was Rocking a 3" runner with a rubber boot at the carb. With a 35/72 Jet combo. Zero Lag, Bog and would pick up nicely.

Switched over to a 6" runner and it bogged like crazy so Up-jetted from 75-85 and best combo Seems to be 75. Noticed a little better mid range but thats about it.

From the amount of BOG i got when I was running 35/72 with the 6" runner, I thought a 85+MJ would be needed but nope. I like running a little lean. Good thing about Water cooled GET's.

Image


Here is the CARB with the 6" runner. Ima run it like this for a week, See how she reacts.
Image

_________________
08 Metro- 64/58 club :banger:
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=63326
09 Metruck- SOLD
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=79193
ConElite for Mod 2016!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 

Space Docker
Space Docker
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 3581
Location: Just north of the ol' Clampett homestead
Gender: Dude
The way it should be Garage mechanic
2011 TR Donor
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:14 pm 
spidy3 wrote:
Did you plug up the area where the air enters the box from factory? The small opening on the bottom right of the airbox cover

Nope, I actually did just the opposite and opened it up completely.

_________________
my damaged buildthread


Top
 Profile  
 

Junior Mint
Junior Mint

Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 148
Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:01 pm 
Ok after reading this I think I'll give it a try. I have a pe20 carb with the filter on the carb. I've jetted and rejected. Ended up with 40/85. It runs pretty well. Good acceleration, just wish it was faster. I'm up to 49mph in a super ninja tuck :| I also have a CDI, lightened flywheel and pipe.

Will mnnthbx's stuff and hose fit my carb? I've got his seat frame, tail light and license plate holder I love them all! He makes great stuff.

Another question... Since I took off the airbox and used battlescooters filter method, the crank case exhaust makes a pppppppsssssss sound. How can I get rid of it?

_________________
My Ruckus
http://totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=80105


Top
 Profile  
 

Sith Slayer
Sith Slayer
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 13315
Location: Milwaukee, wisCONsin
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
2011 TR Donor
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:44 pm 
con i think that's a nice fat pipe. i think you should try reducing the width of the pipe and see if that increases the air velocity a bit and see if your jetting needs increase.

just something to experiment with.

_________________
I AM my post count.

49cc-Sith Slayer-Mechanically disadvantaged-130 rear/2 shoe clutch
66cc-Annakin
49cc-2007 Honda Metropolitan- gonna make it super cute, build thread to come

Its easier to tell the truth than to defend a lie.......for some.

75/49 Founder


Top
 Profile  
 

The Carburetor Boys
The Carburetor Boys
User avatar
Years on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TRYears on TR

Posts: 5603
Location: Mooresville, Masshole
Gender: Dude
The way it should be
2011 TR Donor
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Short Runner VS Long runner- Intake
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:51 pm 
A plenum is a most EXCELLENT idea..and with a diaphragm CV carb..
having a calm pocket of air for the carb to breathe from is a HUGE benefit..

I've tossed around the idea of a carbon box that is baffled inside to further slow down the air..
even go as far as to make the air filter location in an area where no water would gain entry very easily..

runner length is key with the smaller displacement engines..but if ya really wanna GET into it..

try the actual clocking of the runner..whether or not the tube is point up..down..or horizontal..
give that a shot :wink:

As far as how my carb performs with runner length..I could begin to tell you what is best..
there are too many variables..
but what funny too me is..I can modify a carb..test it on my Ruck..send it off..and then that end user runs a COMPLETELY different combo than what I ran it on for best results..

the only area that I can go to is not the jetting..but to the diaphragm..
air density determines more than you think when it comes to these 49cc engines..
and when we remove the air inlet restriction..ie stock airbox..
the diaphragm needs to be recalculated to perform the best..

_________________
49cc
1(900)GET-SLIM
Robomod wrote:
Just dont be a pussy, and you wont run into assholes.
tunahs tune and ruckas tuck
CarolinaCon 2009 - Slowest Ruckus


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Check out who is online and not out riding.

Rucksters browsing this forum: No rucksters and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
 
Copyright Owners: click here to report copyright infringement

Technophobes: click here if you are having issues registering or logging in

TotalRuckus.com 2005-2015 (That’s 10 F’ing years!) - All Rights Reserved --- Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group