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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: **OFFICIAL PC20 Tuning/Problems thread**
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:49 am 
As we all know the original PC20 thread has turned into a gigantic mess of questions, concerns, likes, dislikes, etc. I would like to have this thread started as the official PC20 tuning thread, where new and old users to the PC20 can ask questions about TUNING and get TUNING answers. This will alleviate the need to look through 38 pages of confusion and get right to the point.

Please include the below information when asking for PC20 tuning help –

Ruckus model year
Modifications (engine)
Approximate elevation
Keihin or Sheng Wei carburetor
Current setup (pilot jet/main jet/needle position)


And of course these are just suggestions of what you should provide. The more information you can give us the more likely your problem can be pinpointed and answered correctly.

-Tips and Tricks can also be posted to help out everyone-

Let’s get the questions started!

If you are answering a question for another member, please remember to use the qoute function so we know what you question you are answering :lol:

PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ANYTHING THAT IS NOT TUNING/PROBLEM PC20 RELATED TO KEEP THIS THREAD CLEAN


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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Tip #1
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:00 pm 
The screws that come with the Keihin carb that attach the bowl to the bottom of the carburetor are complete crap. You can actually use 2 of the screws that hold the bowl onto the stock carburetor, which are way better quality!


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Junior Mint
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:51 pm 
how do you change needle position?
07
stock engine, yosh
0-100 ft.
keihin
32pj/stock mj
how do i fix the bog when i blip the throttle?

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 Post subject: Re: Tip #1
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:13 pm 
2tirefire wrote:
The screws that come with the Keihin carb that attach the bowl to the bottom of the carburetor are complete crap. You can actually use 2 of the screws that hold the bowl onto the stock carburetor, which are way better quality!

Which are 4mm x 12mm.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:26 pm 
'08
stock engine, kitaco exhaust
JC20 carb
1900 ft
30pj/82mj/default needle

I'll start with some basic questions.

Turning the air/fuel mixture screw CCW makes the mixture leaner/richer? How many turns CCW should I make, from closed, when I am resetting it?


What is the definition of bog? Can either being too lean or too rich cause bog? If so, what is the difference between lean bog or rich bog?

Does the pilot jet always add to the mixture from idle to WOT?



Thanks for this. I was thinking a thread like this was needed.

Cam


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:44 pm 
ruck-u wrote:
how do you change needle position?
07
stock engine, yosh
0-100 ft.
keihin
32pj/stock mj
how do i fix the bog when i blip the throttle?


Stole this from the PC20 thread... Plus I love quoting myself... :D

seansean wrote:
So here is a little how to for those wanting to change the needle clip.

First of, unscrew the ribbed ring that holds the top on the Carb
Image

Note how the parts of the cap are...
Image

Looking in the bottom of the black casing you will see a V shaped spring that holds the top of the needle and the clip down against the plastic.
Image

Pulling the spring back, graspt the throttle cable where it seats on the bottom side of the plastic tube and release it from it's seat and slide it out the slit in the side.
Image

Then you will be left with the long throttle tension spring in one hand and the tube with needle and clip, still installed, in the other. Gently push the pointed end of the needle up towards the blunt end, which will push the V shaped spring, needle and clip, up out of the tube. Don't let the V shaped sspring go flying and you will be left with this...
Image

Then you can press gently on the open side of the clip that is seated in one of the notches of the needle and push it off the needle. Move the clip to the desired position on the clip and install in reverse.
Drop it into the hole in the plastic tube, making sure it is all the way seated to the bottom so that the clip is flush against the plastic. The V shaped clip will then lay on its side like it originaly did, holding the needle and clip down.
Image

Slide the long spring back over the throttle cable, and while holding it compressed, grasp the end of the cable and place the nub in the seat on the bottom of the pastic tube and slide the rest of the cable in through the slit in the side.
Image

Align the cap and the tube so that the slit faces the driver side of the bike and insert it back into the carb, place the cap back on and screw on the ribbed top and you are good to go. Good Luck

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:04 pm 
ruck-u wrote:
how do you change needle position?
07
stock engine, yosh
0-100 ft.
keihin
32pj/stock mj
how do i fix the bog when i blip the throttle?


You live with the bog. I have come to the conclusion that the PC20 carburetor is just too big for the stock 50cc motor. I have tried every SJ and needle position known to man to get this thing to rid the idle to WOT blip, and nothing really cures it totally. Just roll on the throttle and avoid idle to WOT smashes. It's a minimal price to pay for the performance you get over the stock carburetor.


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Junior Mint
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:28 pm 
thanks sean.
2tire...i've been living with it but i thought someone out there might have figured out the trick to it. for me it's not a lean or rich issue but what you describe...idle to WOT bog. i'm running smooth otherwise so unless someone can tell me a sure fire way to fix it i'm not going to mess anything else up trying. thanks for the feedback.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:44 am 
I had the bogging problem before. I think it floods the carb when you WOT from the get go. So I thought of ways to either decrease the amount of gas at WOT or increasing the amount of air.

I too tried all the SJ in many combinations and adjusted the shit out of the air/fuel screw. Some points were better then others but still bogged. So I decide to try to add more air.

I changed my KN filter that came with the kit (Bowls) to the KN-62-1513 which is larger. That got rid of my bogging for the most part. Then I added the blue clutch springs which for reasons I don't really understand, completely got rid of the bog.

Not sure if it will work for everyone but it made sense to me.

38sj
90mj

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:01 am 
RUCKSTER wrote:
Then I added the blue clutch springs which for reasons I don't really understand, completely got rid of the bog.


This is kinda what I was thinking would happen. When you install the blue clutch springs you’re making the Ruck launch at a higher RPM than stock. This higher RPM launch would reduce / eliminate the time you’re actually ridding in the PC20’s “bog zoneâ€

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:15 pm 
MplsRuckguy wrote:
RUCKSTER wrote:
Then I added the blue clutch springs which for reasons I don't really understand, completely got rid of the bog.


This is kinda what I was thinking would happen. When you install the blue clutch springs you’re making the Ruck launch at a higher RPM than stock. This higher RPM launch would reduce / eliminate the time you’re actually ridding in the PC20’s “bog zoneâ€

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:58 pm 
I already have blue springs but i'm still using the filter that came with the carb. guess i'll try the bigger one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:14 pm 
ruck-u wrote:
I already have blue springs but i'm still using the filter that came with the carb. guess i'll try the bigger one.



I’m by no means saying that clutch springs are a substitute for proper tuning. I’m just saying that in theory they should help with the bog.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:47 pm 
RUCKSTER wrote:
I had the bogging problem before. I think it floods the carb when you WOT from the get go. So I thought of ways to either decrease the amount of gas at WOT or increasing the amount of air.

I too tried all the SJ in many combinations and adjusted the shit out of the air/fuel screw. Some points were better then others but still bogged. So I decide to try to add more air.

I changed my KN filter that came with the kit (Bowls) to the KN-62-1513 which is larger. That got rid of my bogging for the most part. Then I added the blue clutch springs which for reasons I don't really understand, completely got rid of the bog.

Not sure if it will work for everyone but it made sense to me.

38sj
90mj


Everyone slow your roll... a 38/90 combo is MUCH higher than anyone else is running EVEN WITH the Big Bore Motor. That is probably why the bigger filter (more air) helped RUCKSTER. At this point in time, I am prone to believe the people who have adjusted their PC20 with the assistance of a WIDEBAND sensor. Not saying that this is completely wrong, since everybody runs different from each other but that seems pretty rich to me considering a PC20 is a big jump from the 16 stock carb (granted it's CV) and some have even argued that it is too big for a stock motor. I'd err on the side of caution closer to the average of what most people are running... Just something to think about.

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Get out of the game, cause this shit will make you eat ramen and starve your children bro.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:24 pm 
Just invest in a wideband, thats really the only way to truly get it tuned right. Thats why I havent touched mine. Mine runs pretty good, but it could use some fine tuning. I realized with out a WB, I could fuck with it forever and still not get it right.

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