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Shot Caller
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 Post subject: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:49 pm 
Hey TR I was looking for the best way to read a spark plug and came upon a site that had many different spark plug reading and rated them.

http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html

If you click on the picture it gets bigger. Helped me when I needed it.





I hope an admin can sticky or put in mod list. This question is brought up about 10 times a month.

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TR Ride of the Month!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:56 pm 
Don't need to be a admin. It's up there now though!

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:40 pm 
Real Spark Plug Reading:
For plug reading, You need to cut the metal off the insulator and look at the BASE OF THE PORCELAIN. When it's right you'll see a "wedding ring" looking black ring at the base of the porcelain, and from there all the way up should be white.
Forget the metal part of the plug, look at the ceramic if you want to try to get A/F right by plug reading. A wideband is THE way to go, it won't just tell you what your mixture was when you turned it off like plug reading does.

If you do a run, let it idle, and then shut it off and read the plugs, plug reading will tell you how it was at idle (when it was last run). That's why plug reading misleads so many novices.

Great articles:
http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/r ... plugs.html
http://www.strappe.com/plugs.html
http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/h ... plugs.html

Good pictures of disected plugs:
http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/p ... tures.html

If you don't want to chop up your plug try using one of these:
http://www.thefind.com/family/info-illu ... microscope
They can be found at radioshack or in the computer section where they sell cat-5 and fiber optic tools. They are pretty cheap.

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One of Us
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:28 am 
I posted this in another thread but perhaps it would be useful here. Mods you can deleat it if you find it not appropriate.

One thing that people might not know is that unleaded pump gas colors the plug very little if at all when the mxiture is right. The way to read a plug is to install a new plug, go and do an extended top end run and do what is called a plug chop, kill the ignition while at WOT and coast to a stop.

These tips are for unleaded pump gas only, leaded race fuel will color the plugs traditionaly, shoot for tan to brown. Octane booster may color the plugs strangely like orange or even green.

Pull the plug and look at the center electrode porcelein. On pump gas the electrode insulator will be a very light tan/greywhite. If you look down into the crevice between the center electrode insulator and the plug shell, you will see a grey/black ring of color. If you don't see one, chances are you are too lean.

Look for tiny fleck that look like pepper on the center electrode insulator, if you see that, that is a sign of detonation and leaness

Look at the metal center electrode and the ground electrode. They should be clean but not show signs of bluing or worse yet tiny dingle balls that look like mini weld splatter. That is a sign of detonation and over leaness.

To determine pilot jet size, wing the throttle and feel the response in the first 1/3 of the throttle opening, then drive through this region while moving the throttle open very slowly. Too rich will feel sluggish with a burbly exhaust note with the engine slow to respond to throttle input. Too lean will surge, the engine will stutter and be hard to hold at a stready speed.

On this forum, it seems like people mix up the feel for a bog, surge and flatspot, thus too lean and too rich are confused. Hopefuly this description will help clear that up. Do A to B testing and only change one thing at a time.

Generaly if a plug looks brown or black on unleaded pump gas, then its way too rich. It is also hard to hear detonation on small bore motors with shallow included valve angles like ours so you gotta feel careful.

The best way to observe your jettings effectiveness (the main circuit)without a dyno or wideband is to measure time to speed or RPM to distance. You can easily devise some common sence tricks for that.

Hope this helps.


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Junior Mint
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:47 pm 
:shock: I decide to add my vertion of this, hope it helps :?:
http://battlescooter.proboards27.com/in ... thread=299


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Litter Vigilante
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:07 am 
This is a good thread that's applicable to the BR to.
I've tried for a long time to get a COMMON Maintenance
Forum. That could provide tips that help with any type
of scooter or motorcycle.
I feel like Rodney Dangerfield:
Don't get any respect,

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:09 pm 
cool now i can check my plug... lol :D


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Habitual Offender
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:16 am 
very helpful!

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:46 pm 
Thank you :banger:

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Donkey Puncher
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:48 pm 
mods please make this a sticky

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Habitual Offender
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:35 am 
To keep your plug from getting stuck - use some anti-sieze compound on the threads.

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:30 pm 
Question- Wouldn't plug reading be completely inapplicable to vehicles with cvt's (constant velocity transmissions) such as scooters? For example- in checking a main jet- if you're doing around 40, wide open throttle and kill the engine, while you are coasting to a stop (even if braking hard) your engine continues to turn, drawing an air/fuel mixture onto the spark plug. In my mind it seems that this would distort the reading. When I used to tune dirt bikes I could be at WOT, pull in the clutch and kill the engine which worked well. But with the CVT it seems plug readings wouldn't be as reliable.

I'm probably being too anal as always, but I've never been a big fan of plug readings waaaay too objective for my tastes. To jet an engine that gave me a clear and concise reading of 'richness' on the plug, it usually started running crappy before it even was reflected on the plug. Just my .02

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:37 am 
drsniff wrote:
Question- Wouldn't plug reading be completely inapplicable to vehicles with cvt's (constant velocity transmissions) such as scooters? For example- in checking a main jet- if you're doing around 40, wide open throttle and kill the engine, while you are coasting to a stop (even if braking hard) your engine continues to turn, drawing an air/fuel mixture onto the spark plug. In my mind it seems that this would distort the reading. When I used to tune dirt bikes I could be at WOT, pull in the clutch and kill the engine which worked well. But with the CVT it seems plug readings wouldn't be as reliable.

I'm probably being too anal as always, but I've never been a big fan of plug readings waaaay too objective for my tastes. To jet an engine that gave me a clear and concise reading of 'richness' on the plug, it usually started running crappy before it even was reflected on the plug. Just my .02


I’ve thought about that too. I don’t think it matters as much on a 50cc scooter with an automatic transmission. Generally I think it’s better to just buy a wideband or find someone who has one. If you don’t want to spend the money then just tune it to performance. It takes a while on these little scoots to even notice a diff on the plugs, so I just check mine when I do an oil change to make sure there are no major problems.

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Needs Training Wheels
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:17 pm 
Yeah I agree. I just recently 'tuned to performance' my main jet, maybe this will help some fellow ruck riders out there:

Relative density: Ranges from 84% to 89% in my area in this time of year.

FIND OUT YOUR RELATIVE AIR DENSITY EASILY BY USING THE FOLLOWING TWO SITES:
use this site: http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/KRNO.html to get your weather values
then.... input them into this site: http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da_rh.htm

K&N Filter intake, stock exhaust, stock carb

got highest top speed on same flat test track from 85 main
eliminated low speed bog by shimming needle 2mm and cutting 3 revolutions of coil off of carb spring
running stock 35 slow jet
used chanito method CLICK HERE, 10TH POST DOWN Which for me was 2 1/2 turns out

Hopefully this helps someone with similar air density as me and turns you from :pissed: to :mrgreen:

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Junior Mint
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 Post subject: Re: Spark plug reading
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:07 pm 
No senhores, the wheel turning does not make the engine turn as the expansion type clutch prevent the motion from the wheel to be transmited to the engine, as soon as the engine is off the shoes inside the clutch will retract (because of the springs) and the drum which is attach to the gear set will just spin happily, without affecting the engine :shock:


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